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Apr 16 2013 09:16am
Quote (brmv @ Apr 16 2013 08:40pm)
simple actually, are there 24k+ different accounts in the bible? by moving the goalpost you have locked yourself into a corner  :lol:
and why should i bring prove that god isn't real at all? in case you missed it, i am an agnostic
as i have told you and 'dajusta' several times: if you want to have faith, no objection from me
but do not claim justification for your faith from something which does not provide it


So you finally got it in your head that there are 24k+ eyewitnesses accounts in the bible. Now that we finally have that settled we can move on to the next point of the discussion. - your dodge.
I provided you with links when requested to back up my claims but you didn't provide anything when requested to back up your claims. My arguments have been CONSISTENT all the way.
If you want to see these copies, then all you need to do is pick up a bible and read it.

All the evidence we need is in the Bible.
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Apr 16 2013 02:24pm
Quote (Ylem122 @ Apr 16 2013 07:42am)
my point has been that most the manuscripts are fragmented so the massiveness of 24000 holds little value.

perhaps a misunderstadning?


Are you a scholar on ancient writings and manuscripts?
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Apr 16 2013 03:15pm
Quote (Ylem122 @ 16 Apr 2013 14:42)
my point has been that most the manuscripts are fragmented so the massiveness of 24000 holds little value.
perhaps a misunderstadning?


that is fully correct, my point for responding to your initial post was to avoid having a red herring floating around

Quote (dajusta @ 16 Apr 2013 20:24)
Are you a scholar on ancient writings and manuscripts?


has nothing to do with that
one could easily forget nearly all one or two page fragments assumed to be from the 8th century or later
and still arrive at a literary concordance matching the current understanding 99.99%


Quote (CPK001 @ 16 Apr 2013 15:16)
So you finally got it in your head that there are 24k+ eyewitnesses accounts in the bible. Now that we finally have that settled we can move on to the next point of the discussion. - your dodge.
I provided you with links when requested to back up my claims but you didn't provide anything when requested to back up your claims. My arguments have been CONSISTENT all the way.
If you want to see these copies, then all you need to do is pick up a bible and read it.

All the evidence we need is in the Bible.


can't you read? or more precisely: can't you comprehend what you read?
your arguments have as so often been absolute rubbish and easily refuted
it is really sad that you base your faith on a wrongful understanding

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Apr 16 2013 05:31pm
Quote (brmv @ Apr 16 2013 05:15pm)
can't you read? or more precisely: can't you comprehend what you read?
your arguments have as so often been absolute rubbish and easily refuted
it is really sad that you base your faith on a wrongful understanding

Sad though it may be, it isn't really all that surprising when you think about it.
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Apr 16 2013 07:08pm
Quote (bentherdonethat @ 16 Apr 2013 23:31)
Sad though it may be, it isn't really all that surprising when you think about it.


there is a difference between faith being based on the message transmitted
and faith which needs reinforcement by numbers
regardless if those are numbers of fragments of the bible being in existence
or numbers which the creationists/intelligent designers produce to justify their doubt in science
faith is something which cannot be proven, it should come from inner conviction and not numbers
should people have faith at all? that is a question which cannot be answered in my opinion
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Apr 16 2013 09:05pm
Quote (brmv @ Apr 16 2013 02:15pm)
has nothing to do with that
one could easily forget nearly all one or two page fragments assumed to be from the 8th century or later
and still arrive at a literary concordance matching the current understanding 99.99%


It has everything to do with being a scholar in that field of work.

Listening to you amateurs questioning the work of scholarly experts is really something.

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Apr 16 2013 09:38pm
Quote (dajusta @ 17 Apr 2013 03:05)
It has everything to do with being a scholar in that field of work.
Listening to you amateurs questioning the work of scholarly experts is really something.


listening you talk about something you don't understand is always good entertainment
have you ever done literary concordance yourself?
and do you know the history of copying the bible
the more modern the copy the more likely that it deviates from the original
"CPK001' quoted quite a decent site on that but go from here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09627a.htm (*)
without any surprise find there will be way less than 1% change to the wording of the text as is has been reconstructed by now
within the library of the history department of my alma mater is one room full of medieval parchments half of them not yet catalogued
you can be sure that some bible fragments will have been found amongst those when the cataloguing is finished
why aren't the guys from the catholic or protestant theology department storming in to find them?
because they know that those are highly unlikely to contribute anything new
you should really inform yourself before you make outlandish claims

(*) to save you the strain of reading too much by having to read through the whole text, let me just quote something:

The critical study of this rich assortment of about 3400 Massoretic rolls and codices is not so promising of important results as it would at first thought seem to be. The manuscripts are all of quite recent date, if compared with Greek, Latin, and Syriac codices. They are all singularly alike. Some few variants are found in copies made for private use; copies made for public service in the synagogues are so uniform as to deter the critic from comparing them.
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Apr 16 2013 09:48pm
Quote
All the evidence we need is in the Bible.


I guess Hogwarts must be real cause all the evidence we need is in Harry Potter.
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Apr 16 2013 10:07pm
Quote (brmv @ Apr 17 2013 07:15am)
can't you read? or more precisely: can't you comprehend what you read?
your arguments have as so often been absolute rubbish and easily refuted
it is really sad that you base your faith on a wrongful understanding


Oh I can read and I can comprehend what I read.
My claim is that there were 24k+ written accounts of the Bible yet you think that 24k+ written accounts isn't very convincing.
You claimed that back then everyone was stupid as hell when back then, education was a priority. I gave you some links to back up my claims.

Now when I request you to provide some sources to back up your claims, you fail to do so.
So why don't you tell us your logic and claims and how you have life figured out without God?
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Apr 16 2013 10:12pm
Quote (CPK001 @ 17 Apr 2013 04:07)
... how you have life figured out without God?


since you seem to have a direct line to your god, ask him how i do it - just have faith in that and don't forget to move the goalposts again as you do in every post :rolleyes:
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