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Mar 11 2019 08:16pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 11 2019 07:18pm)
The soviets definitely were the party which paid the highest death toll for winning ww2. And yes, a western-centric perspective certainly contributes to how little their role is acknowledged in the west. Another big contributing factor, however, is that the soviets received massive arms transfers from the US, and without those, they could very well have crumbled in 41/42. Another factor is that the soviet generals were really ruthless and careless with their own soldiers, they used them as cannon-fodder without batting an eye. 50% or so of their death toll was caused by the incompetence and ignorance of their own leadership. Even then they would have carried the highest death toll of all ww2 parties, but still.


While it's true the US pumped major weaponry to the Soviets, it wasn't really until 43 that it started making a real difference, so the Soviets' turning the tide in 42 was pretty much their own feat, borne of grit and determination. They suffered from some incompetent generals, yes, but they are quickly replaced. General Zhukov led the successful defense of Moscow with a numerically inferior army. He also led the way back to Berlin.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 11 2019 07:10pm)
One thing that kind of bothers me about the Western portrayal of WW2 is how the Soviets role in the war is really minimized, often barely even mentioned. It's like THE reason WW2 was won was because of the US joining and saving Europe & the world. Nevermind the fact that objective history tells that the Soviets broke the camels back when they started pumping out tanks en masse.

I guess whether it's the east or the west, every side will be very centric in their role in the conflict. But when you put the numbers into perspective it's startling. ~418,000 Americans died in WW2 compared to 20 + million Soviets. Now not to take away anything from the Dutch taking care of those graves, because that's admirable, but imo, I think it's somewhat wrong to recognize one nation sacrifices yet another that lost nearly 50x humans is barely mentioned. All across central & eastern Europe, Soviet liberation monuments are being defaced and destroyed meanwhile in the west the US is honored. I recognize communist sins have something to do with the former, but tbh the 20+ million soviets that lost their lives had nothing to do with what happened later in history.


Well in this case, it was the West that had beaten back the Nazis. It's entirely understandable that the Dutch might feel very fondly for American liberators.
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Mar 12 2019 01:21am
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Mar 12 2019 02:41am
Quote (Santara @ Mar 12 2019 02:16am)
While it's true the US pumped major weaponry to the Soviets, it wasn't really until 43 that it started making a real difference, so the Soviets' turning the tide in 42 was pretty much their own feat, borne of grit and determination. They suffered from some incompetent generals, yes, but they are quickly replaced. General Zhukov led the successful defense of Moscow with a numerically inferior army. He also led the way back to Berlin.



Well in this case, it was the West that had beaten back the Nazis. It's entirely understandable that the Dutch might feel very fondly for American liberators.


In our case it is mostly the Canadians that are revered, as they were responsible for the largest part of liberating the Netherlands (they also hosted our royal family). There are more war cemeteries than just Margraten, with French, Canadian, Polish and Commonwealth soldiers. Most of them have the same deal with families adopting graves.
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Mar 12 2019 04:11am
Quote (Santara @ Mar 11 2019 09:16pm)
While it's true the US pumped major weaponry to the Soviets, it wasn't really until 43 that it started making a real difference, so the Soviets' turning the tide in 42 was pretty much their own feat, borne of grit and determination. They suffered from some incompetent generals, yes, but they are quickly replaced. General Zhukov led the successful defense of Moscow with a numerically inferior army. He also led the way back to Berlin.



Well in this case, it was the West that had beaten back the Nazis. It's entirely understandable that the Dutch might feel very fondly for American liberators.


Glad it isn't this group of Alt-Right invading Normandy....they would have shaken the Nazis hand because punching them is wrong.
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Mar 12 2019 05:33am
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Mar 12 2019 05:44am






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Mar 12 2019 06:00am
Quote (balrog66 @ Mar 12 2019 04:41am)
In our case it is mostly the Canadians that are revered, as they were responsible for the largest part of liberating the Netherlands (they also hosted our royal family). There are more war cemeteries than just Margraten, with French, Canadian, Polish and Commonwealth soldiers. Most of them have the same deal with families adopting graves.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Léo_Major

A man who does not know fear.
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Mar 12 2019 12:51pm
based
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Mar 12 2019 12:52pm
Quote (Jupe @ 12 Mar 2019 19:51)


W T F
T
F

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 12 2019 12:52pm
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Mar 12 2019 01:52pm
Quote (Jupe @ 12 Mar 2019 14:51)

it's like a world of warcraft racial trait. more resistant to poison damage
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