You want religious people to keep our moral positions(informed by our religious views) to ourselves, and to not express them politically. My answer to that is "lol no".

Because killing a human life growing inside of you is a different situation than killing someone outside of you, and I like to think about things before I take a position on them. I oppose abortions for rape or incest. The Catholic teaching(which I ascribe to because I'm Catholic) is that it is immoral to directly intend to kill the unborn life, although things like removing a cancerous womb(thereby indirectly killing the unborn life) is acceptable.



That makes no sense at all. Political questions often involve moral positions, whether it's about abortion, healthcare, immigration, or tax policy.

All I hear from you is complaining that I'm not discussing what you want me to discuss. Topics most important to you aren't necessarily most important to others.



God doesn't have one moral law for Catholics and a separate one for everyone else. What policies do I support that promote "grave sins"? Maybe there are some that indirectly do, but promoting contraceptives is directly promoting grave sin, so I can't support it. That doesn't mean I want to ban contraceptives or anything like that. People can make their free choice, but government schools shouldn't be offering them up to people.

If easy access to contraceptives reduces abortions, why would you be against that? Is sex inherently as bad as or worse than abortion in your eyes?

Because the use of contraceptives is immoral, and doing evil so that good may come of it is wrong.

How is it immoral?

Assuming it is, is it more or less immoral than the taking of a life?

If it is less, why would you not prefer it over the taking of a human life, as you see it?

It's separating the sexual act from it's procreative purpose.

They are both gravely sinful acts, although an abortion is more serious. But I believe it's wrong to do evil so that a greater good may come of it, just as it was wrong to incinerate Japanese civilians with nuclear bombs in WW2 in order to save a greater number of lives.

This post was edited by IceMage on Dec 5 2021 06:23am

Why do you believe that that separation is immoral? Do you hold the same view for all natural urges?

If it's chilly out is it immoral to forgo a jacket? Is fasting immoral?

Was it immoral for God to sacrifice his son to save the souls of sinners? Is that not committing an immoral act so that a greater good may come of it?

stop lying. i don't want YOU to do anything. you are entitled to your religious beliefs. judges and politicians, however, should not make laws to pander to them - not in a secular state. it's incredibly dishonest of you to repeatedly misrepresent that, in order to portray yourself as a victim. it's not a difficult distinction, i know you understand it.

you should be well aware that there are plenty of people, in fact a vast majority, who disagree with you on abortion. they value a woman's right to self-determination over the rights of a fetus, and there are plenty of good medical, legal, social, and moral reasons for that, many of which i'm sure you are familiar with, even though you obviously reject them.

what it comes down to is that you feel that your specific religious views are morally superior, and should therefore be made into law. the first part you're entitled to, the second part should not happen in a secular state.
courts full of religious zealots (appointed by presidents who lost the popular vote by millions btw), manipulating the law to reflect the moral and religious beliefs of a minority, is not following the secular principle, and also fundamentally undemocratic.


fun fact: i grew up in a catholic family, was a catholic myself (until i developed critical thinking), but despite most of my extended family being catholics (and generally against abortion, like myself), i don't know of anyone entitled enough to assume that their religious beliefs should determine the lives and choices of strangers - at least not openly. the reason i'm telling you this is because i noticed how you repeatedly point to THE catholic teaching, making it sound like you're not fully responsible for your views, like you had no choice because at some point in your life you committed to that specific denomination.

obviously there's no reasoning with religious fundamentalists in terms of morals, the only thing i can hope you take away from this is that your beliefs should not be forced on others. you don't live in a theocracy (yet)...

This post was edited by fender on Dec 5 2021 06:50am

this fucking clown doesn’t even want to acknowledge the constitution or the fact that killing people is just wrong, and that isn’t a religious view.

Or the fact that the separation of church and state means not condemning other religions from being practiced. Has nothing to do with moral values not being a thought when creating laws.

Abortion wil never be completely banned in blue states. The most I can realistically see the SCOTUS do is pave the way for red states to ban abortion, but I don't see any practical route toward getting it banned in blue states.

This would of course still be a shitty situation, with those red state women who have the money and support to travel to a blue state able to still get abortions while the poor and underprivileged are trapped and will get their life disrupted by unwanted pregnancies.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 5 2021 08:49am

This may be the single dumbest position you hold lol