Quote (bogie160 @ Jan 25 2015 02:07pm)

The average person has acted shamelessly so many times, whether to pit down others or place their interests ahead to the detriment of everyone else, that I really think it's indicative of some form of narcissism to say that you're a good person.

Quote (Skinned @ Jan 25 2015 01:01pm)

Honestly I'm still stuck on rationalists ethics, ie: Kant and the Categorical Imperative/Ends-Means Principle. Being so involved in social work has made this commitment even deeper given the NASW Code of Ethics being a rational and deontological code in the tradition of Kant.

I know that doing this isn't doing what is objectively correct, as Kant believed, it is rather me taking a stand, recognizing that for me there is a right or wrong and a standard for judgement of character, and that failing to make this choice (acknowledging Right and Wrong exists in regards to behavior) delegates one to living life as a dog or other lower beast and in the Kantian definition fails to me the standard of actually being a Person. It is important to note that what a person does of much more important than what a person thinks or believes, although the last two relevant. This is is largely part of the philosophy expounded by Kierkegaard. This particular bit is from Diary of a Seducer, which is Kierkegaard's criticism of Romanticism and the idea that life is to be lived in hedonism and for pleasure. He takes on Hegel in Either/Or, the name alone being an attack on Hegelian Dialectics.

These were big beefs in Continental Philosophy. I know you were curious about it :) It is very interesting how Kierkegaard uses the story of Abraham to pwn Hegel gg no re.

Quote (bogie160 @ 25 Jan 2015 19:07)

While Christians are often guilty of this too, I notice that a lot of atheists, including on this board, genuinely consider themselves to be good people.

The average person has acted shamelessly so many times, whether to pit down others or place their interests ahead to the detriment of everyone else, that I really think it's indicative of some form of narcissism to say that you're a good person.

At the very least you accept and do not seriously try to prevent the enormous violence that sweeps the world daily. I remember the thread where the OP himself would have gladly killed others to save his sorry hide. Call it natural or not, but it flies in the face of what we consider good.

Quote (Voyaging @ 25 Jan 2015 16:50)

I think there's a happy medium between being too hard on yourself and being too proud of yourself.

Some people are genuinely really great people, devote their lives to making the world a better place. Sure, they slip up sometimes but I think people like that deserve to feel good about themselves and definitely wouldn't consider it narcissism.



I think most forms of normative ethics (including deontology and virtue ethics) are compatible with the meta-ethics I'm espousing.

I'm not necessarily a moral realist, just a value realist, if that makes any sense. I think objective value exists, but what we ought to do about it isn't clear.

Quote (IceMage @ Jan 21 2015 04:26pm)

Out of all the bullshit spewed in your post, I'll explain one gem that actually has merit. Guilt and shame.

I grew up as a Catholic, and I would agree that they bestow a fair amount of guilt and shame into the psyche of their kids. Christians in general need to do a better job at providing a broader perspective on sin. I still have irrational thoughts about God wanting to punish me, or that my occasional bouts of depression are from God. Intellectually I know it's not true, but the thoughts are still there, and I attribute those thoughts to my Catholic upbringing. The Christian community should foster an environment more sensitive to the moral failings of their kids.

As for the rest, I'll address it later when I'm off work.

Quote (Handcuffs @ Jan 27 2015 03:18pm)

I'm genuinely curious, as a career goal of mine is to practice psychotherapy, about your experience with the bolded/underlined.

When you say that your "occasional bouts of depression are from God", what does that mean exactly? That God is giving you bouts of depression? Or that God is putting you through situations that result in depression? Or something else?

Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Jan 27 2015 08:20pm)

...you might want to reread what he posted .

Quote (Handcuffs @ Jan 27 2015 03:24pm)

I'm not sure what you think I'm missing.

The part about him knowing intellectually that it's not true? Or attributing it to a Catholic upbringing and the associations with guilt and shame?

In either case, I was just looking for more detail about what goes through his mind in the moments of feeling like the bouts of depression are from God. About what that experience feels like, or sounds like in terms of internal dialogue.