I don't think that's actually true.


https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/#us-deficit-by-year

Also note that more than half of Trump's total deficit came in his final year in office, when governments around the globe put their economies in an artificial stasis to deal with a once-in-a-century health crisis - so they had basically no other choice than to cut checks to the people whose jobs they had literally shut down. What is Biden's excuse, though, for having a more than 70% higher deficit in FY 2023 than Trump had in FY 2019?

https://www.crfb.org/papers/trump-and-biden-national-debt

It breaks it down by noncovid. Which I agree, shouldn't count against trump or Biden

This is from late June. I don't know if Biden approved any major funding since then.

I do love how you conveniently left out Biden's American Rescue Plan which was COVID related but made sure you wrote a diatribe for Trump's COVID spending.

This post was edited by Fgs on Sep 11 2024 03:17pm

I'm willing to just leave out the years 2020 and 2021 for both presidents because covid fucked things up. And that's generous to Biden since his final round of covid stimulus in the spring of 2021 was arguably unnecessary (coming at a time when the worst of the pandemic was already behind us, the economy was already reopening and vaccines were being rolled out at a good pace) and exacerbated the post-covid inflation.


Anyway, our two sources kinda contradict each other. If Trump had approved of more than twice as much non-covid borrowing as Biden, then how come that Biden's deficit is more than 70% higher in FY 2023 than Trump's was in FY 2019, according to official government statistics and in spite of tax rates being higher under Biden? There has to either be something wrong with the metrics used by the crfb (maybe looking exclusively at 10-year borrowing doesn't capture the full picture), or with the underlying economy (in a way that doesn't show up in GDP or employment numbers).

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 12 2024 06:58am

Give them an inch and they will take a mile.
You can't reason with TDS.

Its just basic macroeconomics, somehow ignored by an incompetent federal reserve, that crippling inflation is a product of M2 exceeding underlying growth. If a population size, M2 and actual production all raise in parallel it won't happen. If stimulus money actually stimulates growth then even a QE hose spraying funny money doesn't guarantee inflation. But when production hits a brick wall and the money hose is full blast, we get McDonalds as a luxury food.
Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden all printed huge amounts of money, you see it right on that graph. It wasn't until covid shut down the economy and Trump approved the massive spending with little oversight that we got put into real peril. But even then, it wasn't an inevitability. If the covid bounceback had actually matched the dropoff and people had gone back to work at full pace, maybe we'd dodge the worst of it. There was a whole unnecessary year of shutdown and covidbucks and we're just paying for it with the most regressive form of taxation

The money printing does not bother me as much as the total inept misuse of the funds. PPP loans, scammed and used by businesses circling the toilet drain. Housing protections locked up affordable homes that were often vacant, the banks sit on them until after covid and equities artificially high. The infrastructure bill, haven't seen many new bridges or roads or school funding. Just bridge failures. We are paying a regressive tax and getting ZERO in return. Foreign affairs, flash points all over the world and nuclear threats not uncommon.

This post was edited by RedFromWinter on Sep 12 2024 07:55am

I'm going to be honest, I don't have enough knowledge to make a coherent comment so I won't. And I don't really feel like spending the time to learn.

Fair enough, I kinda feel the same way when it comes to this stuff.

At the end of the day, even Trump's staunchest defenders won't argue that he was a fiscal hawk, but he at least had growth and low inflation to go along with the ballooning deficit; at least until covid really messed things up. Maybe he just got lucky with the timing on this particular front.

I guess the more salient point is that Biden demonstrably engaged in a lot of unnecessary spending as well inflationary policies. Yet another round of covid stimulus in the spring of 2021. Hundreds of billions in climate spending with the deceptively-labeled "inflation reduction act". Withholding drilling permits and cancelling pipelines early in his presidency. Causing the oil industry to stop new investment in rigs and refineries by signaling that he wants to end their business within the next 15 or so years, which is shorter than the amortization period for these kinds of investment. Having pissed away all clout with the Saudis, which would have come really handy when OPEC decided on production cuts. Strengthening and enabling the Mullahs in Teheran who are funding and supplying the Houthis and their assault on a crucial shipping route.

Can someone argue in favor of Trump's economic plan?

I would've also like to see in the video a comparison between Trumps (pre covid) gov spending vs Kamala's (Biden cont) gov spending. Putting an end to wars seems like a way in that direction. Not that i'm under the impression it would balance the numbers. But i'd like to be persuaded that Trump's plan holds more water (regardless of the probability of his proposals passing).

Donald Trump has announced a new policy initiative, removing income tax from overtime pay
Probably the most progressive tax proposal from either party in a generation