Correct, you're one of several strawman enthusiasts in pard. its a disease of the intellectually lazy. easier to make assumptions than ask for clarification. i do it too sometimes, im just not a coward so im willing to admit im wrong if someone corrects me. even in a completely anonymous forum that takes more courage than most people have, and it takes very little.

the problem here is we were on the cusp of real progress with the passing of the Abraham accords, and post October 7th i'm more upset with Israel's response than anything else. they took the bait, i said they would before they even loaded up the first bomb, and it happened. im just glad they havent been even worse, as i suspected they would be. hamas cant be defeated by bombs, or even occupation. they must be defeated economically. but where we sit today occupation is required for that economic solution. it wasnt on october 6th, it is today. the only realistic alternative is for Israel to create a DMZ and let Gaza rot as it sits today.

but hey, maybe im wrong, i'm happy to listen to any info im missing from those not scared to put it forward.

keep telling yourself that. the unfortunate reality is that if you insist on continuing your illegal occupation, anything short of a complete genocide of the palestinian people will sadly but inevitably lead to more dead israeli babies down the road. i don't know how old you are exactly, but one would think that by now you really should have learned that lesson.

even IF you somehow managed to eliminate every single hamas fighter and sympathiser currently residing in gaza, your brutal approach and the literal thousands of innocent lives you slaughtered, made sure that new radicals will be raised in the ruins and the unspeakable suffering you created - and ultimately you will have achieved nothing except quenching your own thirst for blood and vengeance for a while. you can't possibly be naive enough to not realise that, right?

so i guess you better hope and pray that the american taxpayers never get tired of paying for your shit and turning a blind eye to your blatant abuses of international law and human rights - because if they do, no god will be able to help you, sitting on that powder keg of your own making.

personally, i really hope it never comes to that. i wish that more reasonable israelis will see the flaw of your current path, and realise that the grave injustices you inflict upon the palestinian people have to end in order to break this neverending cycle of oppression and violence - but it sure seems like your blood-thirsty government is hell-bent on completely eliminating that option for the next two generations or so...

as much as the general attitude and the extremist rhetoric of you and your fellow apartheid supporters disgust me, i feel genuinely sorry for you at the same time. even though you're currently way better off than your prisoners, it certainly isn't an easy situation to live in, with each of your neighbours hating your guts.
that's why i can only appeal to your common sense and your instinct of self-preservation by saying it's better to take a chance on seeking peace and reconciliation than remaining cruel and simply counting on never being caught with your guard down, while surrounded by enemies...

If we are discussing I request that you do not say stupid and fake bs.
Israel left the Gaza strip in 2005.
So there is no occupation in Gaza.
Israel doesnt have to open its borders to Gaza

The only solution to the Gaza question is the elephant in the room that no one dares to speak

When people assess that this violence is not solvable, they are correct, this is generational blood feuding where the Palestinians are the unapologetic aggressors, who hate Israel so much that they choose violence and nothing else, they're making rocket launchers out of pipes FFS, the entire young generation are brought up to be terrorists who refuse to negotiate. Anyone suggesting "dialogue" is completely delusional because Israel has attempted this for almost 80 years now. They are not interested in dialogue.

The only solution is this:

1) Invade & occupy Gaza
2) Screen all civilians for association with Hamas - if found guilty, execution or hard labour summary sentencing, Israel will need labour to rebuild Gaza
3) Deport all remaining civilians to the West Bank - concurrently, fortify defenses along the West Bank & create a DMZ if necessary (how strong is the border?) - Note: this is the self-evident response to "where will the poor civilians go?"
4) Formally incorporate Gaza into Israel & develop the region with modern amenities & infrastructure, settle with Israelis

Curious on people's thoughts about this solution, if criticized, what's the alternative for long-term stability?

I was told diversity is strength. So a diversity of opinions among gen z regarding hamas and israel makes us a strong nation anf if gen z is called up for a huge war they can be trusted to unify and win!!!!!! /sarcasm

This post was edited by Kuggergug on Oct 19 2023 10:47am

"Right now" This is the lie not much people are falling in.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Yitzhak_Rabin

National religious conservatives and Likud party leaders believed that withdrawing from any "Jewish" land was heresy.[4] The Likud leader and future prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, accused Rabin's government of being "removed from Jewish tradition [...] and Jewish values"


"Right now" ...

You do realize that some might say that Israel are the aggressors ? Your position is founded on a belief that Israel has and continues to do no wrong / else can you please qualify your statement ?

Some might be ignorant of the historical facts - my position, to clarify, is that Israel has offered every single olive branch, has offered swaths of land, has offered absolutely everything over the past 70 years to sue for peace. The other side has rejected absolutely everything and offered up only violence in response. This is historical fact. You can say that Israel are not perfect saints, but that fact is irrelevant - Israel are the victors in a war of defence against aggression, in every single other historical precedent any sort of Palestinian administered land would not exist, it would all go to Israel. They really are saints on this issue.

I'm not going to recite 80 years of history but the first 5 minutes of this video explains the history in brevity:

Not that his murder was justified, but the killer is vindicated in the fact that the Oslo Accords were the direct root cause of this great atrocity. So the assassinated PM has the butchered blood of 1,400 innocent civilians on his hands in the afterlife.

international law and experts disagree ("Despite the 2005 Israeli disengagement from Gaza, the United Nations, international human rights organisations, and the majority of governments and legal commentators consider the territory to be still occupied by Israel...") - yes i know, all nazis and anti-semites of course - but whatever you prefer to call your daily violations of palestinian rights, whatever you rationalised your apartheid policies as, it doesn't change the simple conclusion:

your current slaughtering of innocent civilians will inevitably create a new generation of radicals hating your guts. if nothing fundamentally changes (genocide or finally ending the illegal occupation), no walls, no extra-super-cereal-for-real-this-time occupation / blockade / disenfranchisement / oppression / apartheid system will prevent the aforementioned and well documented by history turn of events.

your desperate bickering over words in order to delude yourself doesn't change the cruel reality about life in gaza - about who dictates what they can and can't build, what they can and can't have, which resources they can and can't exploit, how much of their own water they get to drink, how much medical supplies they can receive, where they can and can't go...

your silly "israel doesn't have to open its borders" line conveniently ignores the fact that a significant part of gaza's border is the mediterranean sea, not israel. so do they control that, are they free to trade then? no, because in reality YOU control that border as well. so much for that dishonest occupier talking point... seems like you simply can't be honest about anything. let me guess, it's your "bad english" that will have to serve as an excuse for being caught in a lie again?

This post was edited by fender on Oct 19 2023 11:12am