if you think you're a centrist post a reliable spectrum test or something.

I have before... I don't need to prove myself to others. Morals and politics mix up in more ways than one.

you dont have to prove anything but put up a fuss when beopup calls you out. OK!

Immigration has been a highly divise topic for a long time. the GOP base has yearned for a more hardline approach to immigration for quite some time, remember Speaker Eric Cantor's defeat at the hands of Dave Brat in 2014, the success of figures like Sheriff Joe Arpaio etc. pp.

And no matter the rhetoric used by Trump, Democratic opposition to his immigration policies would always have been huge. The problem with the immigration issue is not that negligent rhetoric has poisoned the discourse. No, the true issue is that the substantive policy positions of the two sides are too far apart from one another to allow meaningful compromise.





Everything Trump wants to do suddenly is racist/homophobic/reactionary/thedevilincarnate, even if it is something the Democrats supported before Trump. noticing a pattern?





Afaik, the tax overhaul itself is written into law, but the tax cuts on individuals and pass-through businesses are set to phase out until 2027. This was necessary to be able to pass the bill with just 51 votes in the Senate. But I highly doubt that a Democratic government could just sit back and let those tax cuts on individuals phase out - voters would see it as tax increases. Just look at the Bush-era tax cuts, which were controversial at their time too, and which the Democrats didnt like at all. Nonetheless, Obama ultimately folded and made them permanent in 2012.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jan 15 2019 02:54pm

I can argue all that I want. I hate people that are so nosy. I can say things and then let it leave at that if I so desire.

and yet Obama, HRC, nanci, Chuck, etc were all on board for a wall before Trump wanted it. so the positions are too far apart naturally? no, you're wrong. the dems aren't too far from the GOP, the dems are too far from Trump. it really is that simple.



and yet, in hundreds of years, he's the only POTUS to draw this kind of treatment. even in the worst years of Obama the right wing was never on his nuts this much. not even close. i am noticing a pattern, it started with Trump.



the two great partisan lies on taxes are as follows:

The Right: everyone is getting a tax cut (when in reality it's mostly for the upper brackets)

The Left: the rich need to pay their fair share (when in reality most have to pay more under their changes)

im a bit confused by your post, do you think tax rates haven't been in flux for hundreds of years?



can u tho? really?

i bet Beo could bait you with that 100 times in a row if i didnt step in. youre welcome

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jan 15 2019 03:05pm

The Democratic base and the Democratic House delegation are to the left of Pelosi, Schumer and Obama on immigration. The party has drifted to the left on immigration quite hard in recent years. Ive posted the charts in this thread a week or so ago.

The GOP base hasnt changed its stance on immigration as much, it's just that the party establishment was out of step with the base on this particular issue before Trump came along.



edit:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-fights-over-immigration-keep-shutting-down-the-government/

"Secondly, while both parties have undergone ideological shifts, Democrats have shifted more dramatically. Pollsters ask a variety of questions to measure public opinion on immigration, but they all show the same thing: Democrats have become far more pro-immigration in recent years.

According to Pew, in 2006, 37 percent of Democrats3 said that legal immigration to the U.S. should be decreased, compared to 20 percent who said it should increase.4 Pew found a huge reversal in those numbers earlier this year: 40 percent of Democrats back higher immigration levels, compared to 16 percent who want them lowered. According to Gallup, 85 percent of Democrats now feel immigration is a “good thing” for America, compared to 69 percent who said the same in 2006. Republicans haven’t actually become more anti-immigration, according to Pew and Gallup. But, per Pew, there are more Republicans5 who want immigration decreased (33 percent) than who want it increased (22 percent).

As a result, the gap between the parties on questions about immigration has become a chasm:


"

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jan 15 2019 03:20pm

Just to make this very clear: as recently as 2006, the two parties' approval of immigration was basically the same, at 40-45%. In 2018, the GOP still sat at roughly the same value, 40%. Meanwhile, over the 12 year span from 2006 to 2018. the Democrats went from 45% to 85%. And now you tell me that Trump and the GOP are the main reason why compromise on immigration seems impossible?

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jan 15 2019 03:27pm