Facts on the ground. Straight from Putin's mouth to your ears. Are you in Ukraine right now?

This post was edited by Sioux on Feb 17 2022 02:33pm

Tell me, were the thousands of civilians that have reported, watched, died from, and even filmed shelling as it was happening around them - were they all paid for by Putin?

A part of me almost wants to see the Ukrainian army go on the offensive and get their asses utterly handed to them like in 2014-2015, when they lost hundreds of soldiers in single battles and entire fascist volunteer battalions were wiped out like the scum they are after being encircled in numerous boilers. The civilian murdering bastards truly got what they deserved - it was pretty epic to watch happen. A good number of foreign mercs got wiped out too - which is what they get for going to another country with the intention to fight on the side of fascist scum and kill the natives living there.

Unfortunately though that would play into the hands of Biden and his Neocons, and it would also mean a lot more innocent people killed in the process - so it's better off staying a "frozen conflict" with little more than the occasional exchange of artillery fire.

Biden and Blinken can't stand peace though, and peace doesn't suit their objectives, so they want to make this formerly frozen conflict hot again.

chopstickz probably also believed the Russian propaganda back in 2014 when their media was reporting that Ukrainian militias full of neo-nazis and fascists had committed countless atrocities against civilians and even crucified children.
(Or maybe he was the troll factory employee of the month who came up with this horror story.)


I'm probably more sympathetic to the Russians than most, and there's clearly tons of blatant propaganda going around in Western media right now - but this doesn't undo the complete and total ridiculousness of the Russian propaganda, or change the fact that they are clearly the aggressors in this recent conflict.

You complain about propaganda but then spread it yourself.

Pretty funny

If the Russians are not the aggressors, then tell me: what caused this recent conflict? What did the West or the Ukrainians do to cause Russia to corner them with troops?

Thousands of American civilians are reporting that the ghost of Hugo Chavez stole the election from Trump in 2020. You believe everything you see online?

Lies like these:



Spare me.

It's fair to say that Russia has legitimate security concerns, and also true that NATO has repeatedly expanded to the East irrespective of the many promises by NATO and the United States that they wouldn't do so.

It's also true that Ukraine has taken steps to reduce the influence of Russian state media and the Russian language within Ukraine. It's understandable that these things upset Russia greatly.

But all of that needs to be contextualized with respect to Russia's status as a hyper-oppressive, militant kleptocracy. Ukraine has legitimate reasons for wanting to reduce Russian control over their affairs. Russia has ulterior motives for wanting to keep Ukraine in its orbit. And the Minsk agreements are a threat to Ukrainian independence, and Ukraine cannot reasonable commit to them without subjecting themselves to Russian overlordship.

Here's a timeline of events in Ukraine for all you morons that think you know what is propaganda and what isn't:

Early 2014 - A bloody and violent coup happens in which several hundred people are killed in Maidan square resulting in the installation of a new government that aligns itself with the US and against Russia. The coup has blatant involvement from the US, John McCain and Victoria Nuland assist and encourage the "protestors" on the ground in Kiev - making it one of the most blatant US-backed regime change operations in history.

May 2014 - Tensions inside of Ukraine escalate, Eastern Ukraine breaks off from the country due to extreme anti-Russian sentiment coming from Kiev and murders of pro-Russian civilians carried out by fascist gangs, including the Odessa massacre where fascists burned 40 people alive in the same city where some 30,000 jews were murdered in 1941.

Summer 2014 - The illegitimate coup government in Ukraine declares their infamous "anti-terrorist operation" and launches a military offensive against the breakaway regions, with military advisors from the US and NATO assisting them. They begin to massacre civilians, in some cases entire villages of people are wiped out by artillery and airstrikes while mechanized units of Ukrainian troops advance all over the frontline. Things don't look good for Donbass at this time.

The Ukrainian government is the first to initiate open hostilities and begin massacring civilians with overwhelming military force.

The Ukrainian army achieves some limited success in the first months and captures Slavyansk, Mariupol and some other areas.

Fall 2014 - the volunteer militias in Donbass regroup, re-organize and mount a counter-offensive using Soviet-era weapons and some captured tanks and artillery pieces. They manage to get some anti-aircraft MANPADS and completely eliminate the threat from Ukraine's air-force. They receive only limited assistance from Russia at this time, mostly in the form of supplies and humanitarian aid.

Early-mid 2015 - DPR/LPR are successful in their counter-offensives, retake a bunch of lost territory and wipe out thousands of Ukrainian troops all over the contact line, whom are now encircled and have been abandoned by the Ukrainian high command as they are wiped out by non-stop artillery barrages. DPR/LPR manage to capture hundreds of battle tanks and artillery pieces from these battles, greatly adding to their military strength. Hundreds more Ukrainian soldiers die trying to break out from encirclement.

Fall 2015 - Ukraine's government panics and sues for peace. Their army has been utterly defeated and is retreating - they have been badly battered and have suffered major losses. 90% of their military equipment has been destroyed or captured. All of their best fighting units have been killed, wounded or captured. They are on their last legs, realizing they lost the war and need to turn to diplomatic means to stop DPR and LPR's offensive from taking more territory. Russia immediately intervenes and brokers the Minsk agreements at this time.

Ukraine unconditionally agrees to the terms of the Minsk agreement, which stop the DPR/LPR offensive in its tracks. As part of the terms, Ukraine is supposed to withdraw all military forces from the contact line and negotiate with the breakaway region of Donbass.

Instead of doing that, they use the break from fighting to re-arm, recruit, take out some IMF loans to replace all the military gear they lost, and within 6 months resume shelling on Donbass, killing civilians whenever they please. DPR/LPR respond only with counter-battery artillery fire.

Fact is, Ukraine was the first to initiate military hostilities - thinking they could easily win the war, killing thousands of civilians in the process. When that failed, they sued for peace. And now it is the Ukrainian army that is once again breaking the Minsk agreements - Which they signed - and is destroying peace once again, now that they've re-equipped their military, they once again return to the military option.

And this is framed as Russian aggression??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - oh, how stupid people truly are to believe it.

I don't even know what to say about fascist Ukraine - they kill thousands, lose a war, lose tens of thousands of soldiers for NOTHING in a war THEY started, become puppets for US imperialism, and now they want to start another war - all while blaming Russia for their OWN massive failures the whole time.

To call them "pathetic" would be an understatement. They are mass murdering criminals and if Russia fucks them up, they will deserve it.