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Jan 13 2019 10:28am
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Jan 13 2019 10:57am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Jan 12 2019 11:24pm)
Why are borders anti libertarian? Libertarians believe in private property & ability to protect that property. Where’s the dilemma here?


Thor pretty much nailed it... some libertarians are against borders.
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Jan 13 2019 11:28am
Quote (cambovenzi @ Jan 13 2019 05:38am)
The uncountable instances of voluntary private commerce and coexistence in the absence of a state throughout history.

1000 years of Celtic Ireland
The 'wild' west
International trade during medieval times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_mercatoria

black and gray markets were persistent and life saving even during the reign of many murderous lefty tyrants who openly tried to ban capitalism.
A state does not magically make private ownership and trade possible, nor is it the only mechanism to protect markets and property.


Can you be more specific about the year ranges for "Celtic Ireland" because what I'm finding is that they were Feudalist, not Capitalist.....
The wild west had local and federal governments, and towns even did things like requiring you to overturn your weapons when you came into town. Not exactly "absence of state".
International trade during medieval times was hugely state subsidized and borders were enforced. Still not "absence of a state".

The fact is that the only way you can reasonably say to "own" something is if you have the ability to exclude others from it. In absence of a larger entity such as the state that is dependent on your own ability to exert force against others attempting to use it. As such any system in absence of a state can hardly be called capitalist, since your "property" only exists due to the force you can exert, and not any kind of collectively agreed right to property.
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Jan 13 2019 01:25pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 13 2019 01:28pm)
Can you be more specific about the year ranges for "Celtic Ireland" because what I'm finding is that they were Feudalist, not Capitalist.....
The wild west had local and federal governments, and towns even did things like requiring you to overturn your weapons when you came into town. Not exactly "absence of state".
International trade during medieval times was hugely state subsidized and borders were enforced. Still not "absence of a state".

The fact is that the only way you can reasonably say to "own" something is if you have the ability to exclude others from it. In absence of a larger entity such as the state that is dependent on your own ability to exert force against others attempting to use it. As such any system in absence of a state can hardly be called capitalist, since your "property" only exists due to the force you can exert, and not any kind of collectively agreed right to property.


Oh God. Here we go with the caveman and rocks again.
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Jan 13 2019 01:30pm
Quote (SBD @ Jan 13 2019 01:25pm)
Oh God. Here we go with the caveman and rocks again.


It's really not a hard concept for people who are capable of abstraction and systematic thought. ^ _ ^

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jan 13 2019 01:30pm
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Jan 13 2019 01:42pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 13 2019 10:28am)
Can you be more specific about the year ranges for "Celtic Ireland" because what I'm finding is that they were Feudalist, not Capitalist.....
The wild west had local and federal governments, and towns even did things like requiring you to overturn your weapons when you came into town. Not exactly "absence of state".
International trade during medieval times was hugely state subsidized and borders were enforced. Still not "absence of a state".

The fact is that the only way you can reasonably say to "own" something is if you have the ability to exclude others from it. In absence of a larger entity such as the state that is dependent on your own ability to exert force against others attempting to use it. As such any system in absence of a state can hardly be called capitalist, since your "property" only exists due to the force you can exert, and not any kind of collectively agreed right to property.



Thank you for more eloquently stating this than I did.
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Jan 13 2019 01:47pm
Quote (HeLiCaL @ Jan 13 2019 10:19am)


The democratic propaganda machine is so big at this point. Starting to wonder if anyone can stop them
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Jan 13 2019 03:03pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 13 2019 03:30pm)
It's really not a hard concept for people who are capable of abstraction and systematic thought. ^ _ ^


I'm not saying it is. I'm just waiting for the 8 pages of rock ownership ensue.

I'm just finishing my holiday reads now and started on Guns Germs and Steel. Hopefully it's enjoyable.

This post was edited by SBD on Jan 13 2019 03:05pm
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