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Jan 4 2019 03:57pm
Quote (fender @ 4 Jan 2019 22:08)
resorting to blatant lies now i see...




in what world does this article, overinterpreting the very specific claims of a left leaning democrat on this issue, come even remotely close to outweighing the concrete support for increased funding of border security? how does this count as a source for the official 'END GOAL' of the democratic party? remember, that was your claim.

i know this story was a big deal for republicans and conservative pundits in the summer, finally being able to point at something and go 'look, we told you, democrats want open borders!' - but apparently i again overestimated your intelligence and common sense, assuming you would be able to identify this as what it is: the deliberate overinterpretation of what already is an outlier - even pedo moore had SIGNIFICANTLY more support within his party than the assumptions and conclusions of this opinion piece have within the democratic party.

are you even trying to make an at least somewhat reasonable point here or are you going for the low hanging 'technically i can claim i found a democrat supporting an open southern border, that's good enough to claim democrats question the legitimacy of having borders' fruit?

seriously, you might not even realise it, but your desperate attempt to justify right wing propaganda concerning this issue makes you look incredibly stupid...


you just dont get it do you?

its nice and all, when these guys somehow give "concrete support for increased funding of border security", but the exact same people will cry out with the usual buzzwords (inhumane etc...), when migrants are actually stopped at the border, which will render all efforts useless

Quote (thesnipa @ 4 Jan 2019 22:10)
he's the chairperson of the DNC and he's just one of many many many many democrats using the same unrealistic and extreme rhetoric. the article included a poll that stated americans agree that the democrats are largely grandstanding on immigration with little desire to fix things.

im not making an anecdotal argument, i did 3 seconds of research and found top down rhetoric from DNC leadership. 10 seconds more and i can find another few senators. i can do it all day. are you drunk?


keeping in mind of course, as stated above, i find these people to be a minority of the left. most mainstreamers are less extreme. they still exist, and not in insignificant numbers. the number of leftists who signed or supported "Abolish ICE" proves this with ease.



keep em coming. every time u imply im anything but centrist you shoot yourself in the foot and cement yourself as an extremist.

another 30 min post incoming, damn your leash is short today.


concrete support for increased funding of border security
concrete support for increased funding of border security
concrete support for increased funding of border security
concrete support for increased funding of border security
concrete support for increased funding of border security

fender doing his best "i am a broken record" impression again
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Jan 4 2019 04:01pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 4 Jan 2019 22:10)
he's the chairperson of the DNC and he's just one of many many many many democrats using the same unrealistic and extreme rhetoric. the article included a poll that stated americans agree that the democrats are largely grandstanding on immigration with little desire to fix things.

im not making an anecdotal argument, i did 3 seconds of research and found top down rhetoric from DNC leadership. 10 seconds more and i can find another few senators. i can do it all day. are you drunk?


keeping in mind of course, as stated above, i find these people to be a minority of the left. most mainstreamers are less extreme. they still exist, and not in insignificant numbers. the number of leftists who signed or supported "Abolish ICE" proves this with ease.


keep em coming. every time u imply im anything but centrist you shoot yourself in the foot and cement yourself as an extremist.

another 30 min post incoming, damn your leash is short today.



i'm not the one who can't distinguish between being in favour of immigration in general and introducing policy leading to open borders, between legal and illegal immigration, between the deliberate misrepresentation of someone's rhetoric for propaganda purposes and a party's legislative history and concrete action. so maybe you're the one who is drunk? although i suspect it's just a very severe case of the old butthurt with you...

the simple truth is: neither their policy suggestions nor their concrete budget proposals support the 'democrats question the legitimacy of borders' talking point. it's the desperate attempt to portray this issue as an ideological standoff, when in reality both parties already AGREED on INCREASED border funding, but trump got bullied into insisting on funding for his ridiculous campaign promise (conveniently ignoring the 'mexico will pay for it' part) by conservative tv and talk radio hosts. not my problem if you're too butthurt to acknowledge that, or even worse, genuinely falling for that simplistic narrative - the facts don't care about your feelings though...

so please spare me the half-assed backpedaling and claiming you were merely taking an arbitrating role, you clearly picked a side and your poorly constructed 'arguments' failed miserably.

your real views on many issues might be less extreme than the strawmen you so generously assign to other people, but the 'centrist' claim is about as laughable and phoney as cambo's 'libertarian' shtick. you're an edgelord concerned with APPEARING centrist because you figured it's the 'cool' thing to do right now.

Quote (ampoo @ 4 Jan 2019 22:57)
you just dont get it do you?

its nice and all, when these guys somehow give "concrete support for increased funding of border security", but the exact same people will cry out with the usual buzzwords (inhumane etc...), when migrants are actually stopped at the border, which will render all efforts useless



concrete support for increased funding of border security
concrete support for increased funding of border security
concrete support for increased funding of border security
concrete support for increased funding of border security
concrete support for increased funding of border security

fender doing his best "i am a broken record" impression again


stay out of this, nazi boy, you apparently don't even have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

This post was edited by fender on Jan 4 2019 04:03pm
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Jan 4 2019 04:14pm
Head of dnc calls for literal open borders. Not nearly enough evidence.

Lol
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Jan 4 2019 04:46pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 4 Jan 2019 23:14)
Head of dnc calls for literal open borders. Not nearly enough evidence.

Lol


former deputy chair = head of dnc
says "people should be able to go back and forth across the border seeking out the highest wages" = calls for literal open borders
party supports policy increasing border funding = still proves democrats question the legitimacy of borders

conclusion: the politically motivated interpretation of ONE party member's opinion outweighs the party's official stance, legislative record, and concrete funding plan - trench boy logic

thanks for playing...

This post was edited by fender on Jan 4 2019 04:47pm
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Jan 4 2019 05:52pm
How idiotic your insistence on the "they supported increased funding for border security"-talking point really is becomes very apparant if we apply the same logic to a different field:

Just imagine an employer lobbyist groups suggested increasing the minimum wage by $1 per hour, while at the same time suggesting to abolish overtime and holidy premiums, increase the maximum weekly working hours allowed, push for the employer side opting out of contributing to the healthcare for their employees, and reduce safety standards for their workers.

And then someone walks in and keeps saying
"but-but-but they support a higher minimum wage, so this proves that the employers totally dont want to exploit their employees"

"THEY SUPPORT A HIGHER MINIMUM WAGE!!!!111eleven"

------

You keep repeating the same short-sighted sort of argument, Fender. Yes, the Democrats did agree to some marginal increases for border security funding in the recent negotiations.

But the sum would be far too low, and whenever anyone tries to actually enforce border security, they cry foul, unleash a shitstorm of moral outrage on social media and the mainstreams news, and they sue against it and take any other possible measure to undercut it.

Trump wants asylum seekers to stay in Mexico until their application for asylum has actually been approved? Inhumane, inacceptable.
Trump wants to reject the option of seeking asylum for those who already broke the law of the land with their illegal entry? Inhumane, inacceptable, must be sued and struck down immediately by liberal California judges.
Pick up illegal immigrants close to the border, detain them? Inhumane, "we should 'catch and release' them", "we cant possibly detain children, but we also cannot possibly separate children from their parents" (so that everyone entering the country illegally while accompanied by children effectively gets a free pass.)
Of course the Democrats also largely support "sanctuary city" policies, which prohibit local law enforcement and officials in democrat-controlled cities and states from cooperating with ICE officers and requests to hold non-citizen inmates for deportation.


-----


And of course there is the following gem: in 1994, there was a ballot initiative in California, "Prop 187", which sought to prohibit illegal immigrants from using non-emergency health care, public education, and other services.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_California_Proposition_187

Prop 187 was passed by the people of California with a robust 59-41 majority. In the end, it got struck down by a liberal judge on the ground that she "found the law to be unconstitutional on the basis that it infringed on the federal government's exclusive jurisdiction over matters relating to immigration." Moreover, "California is powerless to enact its own legislative scheme to regulate immigration. It is likewise powerless to enact its own legislative scheme to regulate alien access to public benefits."

This was, of course, at a time when there was still a sizable conservative population in California, while the White House and federal policies were liberal.
Compare those arguments from the nineties to those used by present-day California in their fight against Trump's conservative federal administration, compare this to their "sanctuary state law" that they enacted in 2017:
http://fairus.org/legislation/state-local-legislation/california-sanctuary-state-bill-sb-54-summary-and-history

Hypocrisy much?
At the end of the day, Democrats in California nowadays view state law to be above federal law when it comes to immigration, while they held the exact opposite viewpoint just two decades ago - flip-flopping to always side against immigration enforcement and against the reduction of incentives for illegal immigration.


-----

The bottom line is really simple: "Rejecting all efficient forms of border enforcement" de facto does equal supporting "open borders", no matter the rosy PR bullshit and the empty pledges to support "strong and secure borders".

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jan 4 2019 06:11pm
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Jan 4 2019 06:51pm
maybe the message is clear enough now? i guess not, because this is exactly what fender is doing all time
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Jan 4 2019 07:21pm
They say on quiet nights you can hear a faint reeeing from space.
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Jan 4 2019 07:34pm
Fender on suicide watch?
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Jan 4 2019 08:08pm
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Jan 4 2019 08:20pm
'b-b-but i want a WALL!!!'

sorry, but that was a retarded promise to begin with, i'm sorry you gullible bigots fell for it. it's NOT the 'only efficient form of border enforcement', no matter what ann coulter tells you.
rejecting to pay billions for a moronic campaign promise does not equal 'opposing every effective form of border control' - what a ridiculous logic leap.

the simple truth is: neither their policy suggestions nor their concrete budget proposals support the 'democrats question the legitimacy of borders' talking point. it's the desperate attempt to portray this issue as an ideological standoff, when in reality both parties already AGREED to INCREASE funding for border security. trump only rejected the compromise after he got bullied into insisting on funding for his ridiculous campaign promise (conveniently ignoring the 'mexico will pay for it' part) by conservative tv and talk radio hosts.
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