Source what claim? lol, that we dont have a perfect border? or that with good vetting people can lie? PULL THAT SHIT UP JAMIE!

sardonic mockery = right winged propaganda if you're a leftist hack. no one is surprised that you can't figure out the difference between actual rhetoric and propaganda, if your people were capable of that we wouldnt have fought in the 40s.

neither side is actually interested in funding real solutions for the problems we face on the border, both offer bandaids. the right wing's call for the wall is as much of an empty political gesture as the left wing's border aid package. they eat up the wall you eat up the package. i live in reality.

you're pointing to half hearted concessions that are contradictory to their rhetoric, and not recognizing either the contradiction nor the irony of taking their actions over words when you've lambasted trump for years on the same. thus u didnt touch that part of my post, coward.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jan 4 2019 01:54pm

that is rich coming from you of all people, mr. dinreadlel himself...

no, source the claim that you described as misrepresented by me, the one that allegedly leads to unvetted immigration and thus the need for open borders. again, there is no causality or 'logic' to that, it's just a desperate and far-fetched attempt to justify your support for right wing talking points (while conveniently ignoring the part where trump was initially in favour of a compromise and only withdrew after rush limbaugh told him to).

the part i generously did not address was just more basic logic fails on your part: claiming increased border funding is "contradictory" to their rhetoric is only true if you uncritically accept the rhetoric that right wing propaganda assigns to them as truth, which you apparently do. it is not at all "contradictory" to their ACTUAL rhetoric concerning LEGAL immigration.
also, you're doing the exact thing you're accusing ME of: assigning a political stance / support for someone just because i disagree with an argument: i despise corporate democrats, they are weak, corrupt, and almost as toxic for the average citizen as republicans are. just because they have a superior position regarding a specific topic does NOT mean i like them...



inb4 poodog licks your butt saying 'holy shit, fenderp getting slapped' and you stroking his empty little head (and your own ego) by agreeing and fantasising some more about me - we both know that's how it usually goes when you run out of bad 'arguments'...

This post was edited by fender on Jan 4 2019 02:07pm

ok, source that claim.

you're essentially asking me to do the same thing, so i assume it wont be hard for you.



im vocally critical of trump daily and you talk to me and pro-trump users the same with this same rhetoric. is there a reason you continue to undermine your own credibility?

oh look, basic logic is too much for fender again



this discussion is basically a copy of the islam/asylum/crime debate with me
first step, be immune to facts
second step, try to play reasonable while insulting people who expose that his ridiculous moralism is part of the problem and his "arguments" dont add up in reality

its like trying to wash without getting wet or making an omelet without breaking eggs

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/27/us/politics/fast-check-donald-trump-democrats-open-borders.html
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/oct/08/donald-trump/donald-trump-falsely-claims-theres-open-borders-bi/

and you STILL haven't sourced yours, after all i asked first - and unlike YOU i did NOT make a claim that defies FACTS and legislative HISTORY, my claim had face value dripping all over it. republican propaganda has played the 'democrats want open borders' drum for quite a while now, in fact, this whole argument originated from someone uncritically accepting it in the first place.

so your pathetic attempt to support that by claiming their 'end goals' can only be reasonably achieved with open borders and unvetted mass migration better be well sourced and supported, since the facts clearly point in the opposite direction...


so please spare me the bitching now, YOU chose to pick this fight, YOU chose to argue in favour of the simplistic 'democrats question the legitimacy of having borders' spin, trying to portray this as an ideological standoff while in fact both parties are in favour and willing to fund reasonable border security measures (which trump's wall quite obviously isn't)...

This post was edited by fender on Jan 4 2019 02:24pm

https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/398786-calls-for-open-borders-wind-up-closing-doors-for-democrats

that took all of 2 seconds. sure would be a shock if other democrats made similar implicit statements huh?







that last one is exactly what ive been saying in this conversation, and america agrees.

thats one article from one google search and 1 minute of research. but im sure you'll still get all pissy

deputy chairman of the DNC and congressmen says it outright, for months. so do others.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jan 4 2019 02:25pm

i dislike you, and will continue to insult you through a wall of suspensions until i feel like stopping. judging by history that will be never, you're the one on a high horse im happy in the trenches. its my place.

i gave him fair warning, and yet he still gets suprised every time.

today i got him to call me a "retard" then claim democrats dont call for open borders.

resorting to blatant lies now i see...




in what world does this article, overinterpreting the very specific claims of a left leaning democrat on this issue, come even remotely close to outweighing the concrete support for increased funding of border security? how does this count as a source for the official 'END GOAL' of the democratic party? remember, that was your claim.

i know this story was a big deal for republicans and conservative pundits in the summer, finally being able to point at something and go 'look, we told you, democrats want open borders!' - but apparently i again overestimated your intelligence and common sense, assuming you would be able to identify this as what it is: the deliberate overinterpretation of what already is an outlier - even pedo moore had SIGNIFICANTLY more support within his party than the assumptions and conclusions of this opinion piece have within the democratic party.

are you even trying to make an at least somewhat reasonable point here or are you going for the low hanging 'technically i can claim i found a democrat supporting an open southern border, that's good enough to claim democrats question the legitimacy of having borders' fruit?

seriously, you might not even realise it, but your desperate attempt to justify right wing propaganda concerning this issue makes you look incredibly stupid...

This post was edited by fender on Jan 4 2019 03:09pm

he's the chairperson of the DNC and he's just one of many many many many democrats using the same unrealistic and extreme rhetoric. the article included a poll that stated americans agree that the democrats are largely grandstanding on immigration with little desire to fix things.

im not making an anecdotal argument, i did 3 seconds of research and found top down rhetoric from DNC leadership. 10 seconds more and i can find another few senators. i can do it all day. are you drunk?


keeping in mind of course, as stated above, i find these people to be a minority of the left. most mainstreamers are less extreme. they still exist, and not in insignificant numbers. the number of leftists who signed or supported "Abolish ICE" proves this with ease.



keep em coming. every time u imply im anything but centrist you shoot yourself in the foot and cement yourself as an extremist.

another 30 min post incoming, damn your leash is short today.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jan 4 2019 03:31pm