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Aug 16 2015 11:01pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 16 2015 11:52pm)
I disagree. The act in itself doesn't mean that we are being controlled in any way but for what purpose that information is collected has certainly been used as a tool of control, at a subliminal level at the very least. The goal is to get us to consume and spend our resources and i think you would agree that we are experiencing levels of consumerism that have never been experienced previously in history. For example look at how sex has been used to promote marketing campaigns. Make a beer commercial with half naked blondes coaxing the gullible bloke into thinking hey i can really go for a bud light right now. It might not fit in the traditional understanding of what it means to "control" someone but i think it's actually worse.

Anyways i know this wasn't the point you were trying to make so my bad for derailing :P


Still tame compared to the outright oppression that has filled history :lol:

Compared to chattel slavery and having no parental rights due to being female it can't be worse. Maybe for you it wouldn't be, but most Americans would certainly be much more unfree.

This post was edited by Skinned on Aug 16 2015 11:01pm
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Aug 17 2015 06:32am
Quote (thundercock @ Aug 16 2015 09:41pm)
1781-1789 BITCH.


Lol'd! :thumbsup:

Quote (Skinned @ Aug 16 2015 08:48pm)
Name a single time Americans have been freer than now?

Impossible to do.


We are less free all the time.

We are not free to subsist, thanks Wickard v Filburn.
We are not free to defend ourselves in the same fashion we can expect to oppressed, thanks Firearms Owner's "Protection" Act.
We are not free to maintain a standard of living, thanks fiat money and inflation lies.
We are not free to live in perfectly unblighted housing, thanks Kelo v New London.
We are not free to sell our labor in any manner we deem fit, thanks minimum wage laws and forced unionism.

I could keep going, but I'm sure you get the drift.

This post was edited by Santara on Aug 17 2015 06:38am
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Aug 17 2015 11:41am
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Aug 17 2015 12:42pm


What a Dukakis moment lol.
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Aug 17 2015 12:58pm
Quote (Santara @ Aug 17 2015 07:32am)
Lol'd! :thumbsup:



We are less free all the time.

We are not free to subsist, thanks Wickard v Filburn.
We are not free to defend ourselves in the same fashion we can expect to oppressed, thanks Firearms Owner's "Protection" Act.
We are not free to maintain a standard of living, thanks fiat money and inflation lies.
We are not free to live in perfectly unblighted housing, thanks Kelo v New London.
We are not free to sell our labor in any manner we deem fit, thanks minimum wage laws and forced unionism.

I could keep going, but I'm sure you get the drift.


Have you read the details of any of the cases you sited?

Wickard v Filburn Over 70 years ago, and falls under congress's power to regulate interstate commerce, something that is super old...Gibbons v Ogden I think...this is just a footnote to a much older law (1824).

Blame Reagan for signing the most substantial gun control bill in American history. You've finally taken him out of your Ava I see. I'm pretty sure this is a ban on machine guns. I'm not being oppressed with machine guns.

And if you're talking about the police, we have access to anything they can legally use, and more. It isn't like you see cops doing patrols with AK-47s but I can have seventeen in my basement and it is no problem. Wolf!

I'm not sure what you're getting on about maintaining a standard of living...standards of living have only been increasing by every measurable trait including access to health care, education, technology, utilities, and so on. We are probably in a golden age. In fact hunger has only been reintroduced to Americans since the freeing of markets during the Reagan administration. Free trade, the right to nullify all other rights and freedoms, especially freedom from want.

Kelo v New London is a bad example because you had somebody buy a property contingent on the promise that it would be developed. When the promise was broken the property was transferred to somebody who actually developed it, rather than let it fester as it was (a demolished hellscape). What a poor choice of examples of how we are less free. We are less free to break agreements and not do things we agreed to? Seem pale in comparison to Grandfather Laws and internment camps.

You aren't free to sell yourself into indentured servitude? Cry me a river :lol: You crave the right to be ruthlessly exploited with nobody to act on your behalf.

Bravely fighting for a world no sane person wants to live in. Lets bring back in paternalism and the Robber Barons, violently suppress women and minority rights, consumer protections, and organized labor.

Good old days.


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Aug 17 2015 01:55pm
Quote (IceMage @ Aug 17 2015 01:54pm)
I've never seen someone on a Harley look like such a dork.


He is like the villain in every Revenge of the Nerds movie...the smarmy little pet of the dean who is always telling on the brave nerds and trying to ruin their exploits.

Same for Animal House. Bad guy in that too.
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Aug 17 2015 02:27pm
Quote (Skinned @ Aug 17 2015 01:58pm)
Have you read the details of any of the cases you sited?

Wickard v Filburn Over 70 years ago, and falls under congress's power to regulate interstate commerce, something that is super old...Gibbons v Ogden I think...this is just a footnote to a much older law (1824).

Blame Reagan for signing the most substantial gun control bill in American history. You've finally taken him out of your Ava I see. I'm pretty sure this is a ban on machine guns. I'm not being oppressed with machine guns.

And if you're talking about the police, we have access to anything they can legally use, and more. It isn't like you see cops doing patrols with AK-47s but I can have seventeen in my basement and it is no problem. Wolf!

I'm not sure what you're getting on about maintaining a standard of living...standards of living have only been increasing by every measurable trait including access to health care, education, technology, utilities, and so on. We are probably in a golden age. In fact hunger has only been reintroduced to Americans since the freeing of markets during the Reagan administration. Free trade, the right to nullify all other rights and freedoms, especially freedom from want.

Kelo v New London is a bad example because you had somebody buy a property contingent on the promise that it would be developed. When the promise was broken the property was transferred to somebody who actually developed it, rather than let it fester as it was (a demolished hellscape). What a poor choice of examples of how we are less free. We are less free to break agreements and not do things we agreed to? Seem pale in comparison to Grandfather Laws and internment camps.

You aren't free to sell yourself into indentured servitude? Cry me a river :lol: You crave the right to be ruthlessly exploited with nobody to act on your behalf.

Bravely fighting for a world no sane person wants to live in. Lets bring back in paternalism and the Robber Barons, violently suppress women and minority rights, consumer protections, and organized labor.

Good old days.


Over 70 years ago means it isn't valid as an erosion of our rights over time? And the guy wasn't engaged in interstate commerce, he was growing crops for consumption by animals on his own farm. Congress should never have a say in how a person chooses to feed himself.

If we ever come to need the 2nd amendment, it will be the military - with actual machine guns - that does the oppressing.

Tell me more about standards of living growth, Mr Wealth Gap.

Kelo v New London allowed the government to condemn unblighted private property not for public good, but for private benefit. It is absolutely theft.
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Aug 17 2015 04:55pm
Quote (Gastly @ Aug 16 2015 09:35pm)
freedom is about actual freedom to act rather than an abstract freedom that is not livable and real. a theoretical freedom that is divorced from actuality is no freedom at all.
to realise one's capabilities is freedom. an abstract, ghost-like freedom divorced from the material is libertarianism.


So someone who borrows a 100 dollars now and spends it immediately is freer than someone who doesn't borrow that 100?, clearly the former person has 'more freedom to act'! Let's forget about anything else and call that freedom
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