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Nov 19 2017 03:02pm
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Nov 19 2017 03:57pm)


You said a bunch of moronic things as usual, and play your negative adjective bingo when called out on it. :zzz:

This post was edited by cambovenzi on Nov 19 2017 03:03pm
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Nov 19 2017 03:02pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Nov 19 2017 02:55pm)
well, ok, gpas and gre and stuff like that is maybe a bad surrogate for the much wider concept of "performance". it is of course difficult to operationalize "performance", and I have no issue with weighing in both absolute and relative performance. but I still stand by my point that performance, however we operationalize it, should be the only criterion for the hiring for merit-based positions. phd programs, positions in a law firm, hedge fund managers, and so on. soft skills ("does he fit into our team") will of course play a larger role the further one goes down the job pyramid.

also note that your example with the "3 SD above their country average nigerians" being better than the "1.5 SD above their country average chinese students", despite the chinese scoring higher absolute GREs, might not translate to other fields as easily. the more a position is about hard work and experience and the less about raw talent and top-end intelligence, the more shaky this concept becomes. when hiring for an academic position in a STEM field, you really want people with top-end intelligence, and it sounds very plausible to me that the relative performance of applicants compared to the rest of their country might be a better indicator of this trait than the absolute value of a certain test score.


The thing is we can't use "performance" as a hiring criterion because their "performance" hasn't happened yet.

The criterion is "potential", and this is more difficult to operationalize.


Areas where hard work and experience are important are less difficult for the lower classes to attain. The parts of society that actually cause problems are the ones which depend on standardized test scores and metrics like GPA which disproportionately favor privileged groups.

The reason these metrics are used isn't a coincidence either, privileged groups know what favors them and they have the resources to implement and gain representation.

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Nov 19 2017 03:04pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Nov 19 2017 07:39pm)
so whats the conclusion you draw from this nice tale about privilege? that we should end the merit principle? that we should allow persons with worse performance into top jobs because "they had it harder" and drag the entire society down in the process?

imho, the conclusion is that we must provide more opportunities to underprivileged kids. but if they take the opportunity and run with it or not is still up to them. yes, people who have lived a privileged life from the day they were born sometimes are too arrogant. but in my opinion, we should stay the hell away from the conclusion that the leftists are drawing, we should stay the hell away from quotas and abandoning the meritc principle.


also: who says that it's the poor kid's dad who becomes sick? that could just as well happen to the rich dad.


That is a decent point. Of course the truth is somewhere in the middle between: "Privilege determines who you become" and "You are the master of your own destiny". Pulling yourself up by the bootstraps is not possible in all situations, just as someone being rich isn't always just the natural cause and effect of their parents being rich.

Society should aim to reduce the gaps in oppurtunity. Government can easily step in in situations where schooling is inadequate or food deserts are rampant. Those are societal problems that politics can provide solutions for.

@Thor: On the Chinese students thing.

I'm still part time working as a TA at the Uni, and the Chinese are the worst offenders in terms of cheating. For a programming course they literally hardcoded the file to produce the desired output from the example instead of being actually functional. They've also tried multiple times to cheat with smartwatches that they pretended were analogs.

This post was edited by balrog66 on Nov 19 2017 03:11pm
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Nov 19 2017 03:14pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 19 2017 04:32pm)
Pretending AA is a quota system.


Its the exact definition of a quota system, duh :rofl:
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Nov 19 2017 03:20pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ 19 Nov 2017 22:02)
You said a bunch of moronic things as usual, and play your negative adjective bingo when called out on it. :zzz:


btw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Mission
https://www.aucklandcitymission.org.nz/

if you check what the author wrote in last frame.
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Nov 24 2017 02:49am


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Nov 24 2017 12:07pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Nov 24 2017 09:49am)


Glastonbury is the best current music festival on Earth
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Nov 28 2017 08:47am
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