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Dec 19 2019 03:27pm
Quote (Surfpunk @ Dec 19 2019 03:24pm)
8th.
Grade.
Civics.

The House is the grand jury. They don't convict anyone. They determine if there is enough evidence to bring charges.
The Senate is the jury. The upcoming part of the process is the actual trial. The Senate doesn't "overrule the House". It conducts a trial, overseen by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, based on the charges brought by the House, and either convicts or acquits based on the evidence brought at trial. Acquittal is not an overruling of the House. It's a finding of "not guilty", based on the evidence. Now I'm fully aware that this is a political process, and not a criminal one, but the concepts still apply.


go study the process more until you find out how this is a hoax/witchhunt/bias/invalid/etc, you commie liberlol bias invalid hoaxer you. :rofl:
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Dec 19 2019 03:29pm



Well, let's see... Now that the cockamamie "TV time for idjets", impeachment is over, we can all get back to being halfway decent human being for the next two weeks. [insert relevant Christmas carols and ofc, appropriate choruses of Auld Lang Syne, here]

Next we can move on to the Senate tossing out the House's ludicrous impeachment, and then dance gloriously into Trump wins in 2020.

"President Trump" needs to change absolutely nothing, to win in 2020 Just keep working to fill his campaign promises, and keep draining the swamp. And MOST of all keep tweeting.



Nothin' but the facts ma'am.




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Dec 19 2019 03:33pm
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 19 2019 02:02pm)
I am curious, do Trump supporters think this sort of leveraging of US power to pressure foreign governments into smearing political opponents should become standard practice?

If you oppose impeachment... and you still plan to vote for him... it basically follows that this shouldn't be something presidents refrain from doing.


crickets
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Dec 19 2019 03:38pm
Quote (Surfpunk @ Dec 19 2019 02:24pm)
8th.
Grade.
Civics.

The House is the grand jury. They don't convict anyone. They determine if there is enough evidence to bring charges.
The Senate is the jury. The upcoming part of the process is the actual trial. The Senate doesn't "overrule the House". It conducts a trial, overseen by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, based on the charges brought by the House, and either convicts or acquits based on the evidence brought at trial. Acquittal is not an overruling of the House. It's a finding of "not guilty", based on the evidence. Now I'm fully aware that this is a political process, and not a criminal one, but the concepts still apply.


https://www.cop.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Senate_Impeachment_Role.htm

He's not impeached until the senate says so. Learn to think.
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Dec 19 2019 03:41pm
Quote (IceMage @ 19 Dec 2019 22:33)
crickets


My response to this question was implicitly contained here:

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 19 Dec 2019 20:04)
I didnt say that all politicians are as corrupt as he is. He most definitely is pulling shit like that more often than most. My point was that pressuring allies for self-serving purposes is something that plenty of world leaders before him did as well, and that his actions on Ukraine therefore should not be considered to be a uniquely corrupt behavior. In any case, I dont think that this crime is severe enough to clear the incredibly high bar for removing a president from office. Censure would have been the appropriate response from Congress.


1. I acknowledge that he acted with corrupt intent.
2. I explicitly called his actions a crime.
3. I think that his actions on Ukraine were deserving of an investigation and, in the end, a congressional censure.

It's been my position for many weeks now that what Trump did was bad, but not bad enough to justify a step as extremely drastic as removal from office.


An investigation plus censure should be enough to deter this kind of abuse of power and prevent it from becoming standard practice.


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Dec 19 2019 03:47pm
Quote (Superman @ Dec 19 2019 03:38pm)


From your own link (which directly quotes the Constitution):

Quote (Senate.gov)
The United States Constitution provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment" (Article I, section 2) and that "the Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments…[but] no person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present" (Article I, section 3). The president, vice president, and all civil officers of the United States are subject to impeachment.
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Dec 19 2019 03:48pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 19 2019 04:41pm)
My response to this question was implicitly contained here:



1. I acknowledge that he acted with corrupt intent.
2. I explicitly called his actions a crime.
3. I think that his actions on Ukraine were deserving of an investigation and, in the end, a congressional censure.

It's been my position for many weeks now that what Trump did was bad, but not bad enough to justify a step as extremely drastic as removal from office.


An investigation plus censure should be enough to deter this kind of abuse of power and prevent it from becoming standard practice.


And what should be the consequences when basically the entire Republican party and Trump himself say nothing wrong happened?
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Dec 19 2019 03:54pm
Quote (IceMage @ 19 Dec 2019 22:48)
And what should be the consequences when basically the entire Republican party and Trump himself say nothing wrong happened?


Let the voters decide if they agree that nothing wrong happened. If the voters think that the president and his party blatantly abused power on something that is actually important, they will get punished at the polls.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 19 2019 03:55pm
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Dec 19 2019 03:58pm
Quote (Superman @ Dec 19 2019 03:38pm)


Quote
The United States Constitution provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment"


literally. the. first. fucking. sentence. from. your. link.

house gets power to impeach. senate gets power to remove. trump has been impeached. but not removed.

it doesnt get more simple than this dude.
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Dec 19 2019 04:18pm
From Merriam-Webster:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/impeach

Quote (The Fucking Dictionary)
1: to charge with a crime or misdemeanor
specifically : to charge (a public official) before a competent tribunal with misconduct in office
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