Quote (BaHgerAUT @ 12 Feb 2024 11:57)
1) You're talking like Hitlers military conquest is inevitable. You're arguing that Nazi Germany, just like Russia, had no other choice but to attack and it's Polands/Ukrainians choice not to defend themselves. Putin and Hitler were free to give up their expansionist plans, without having to fear an immediate risk due to their military strength. Therefor nobody has forced them.
2) The Intentions to denazify Ukraine do not correlate with his actions. Russia bombs civilians and their infrastructure, deports children and tortures civilians. Therefor i conclude it's a lie.
3) Cuba was never invaded by USA. Ukr didn't join Nato and no process of them joining has ever started. excuses all over. Also what's the reason for invasion now? denazify or nato? Or just his urge for power?
5) in May 2014 russia recognizing the newly elected Ukrainian government as the rightful leadership of the country.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA4M05420140524/"Resolution of the Verkhovna Rada №764-VII of 23.02.2014 «On conferring powers of the President of Ukraine on the Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada according to article 112 of the Constitution of Ukraine»
Given that President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych
withdrewfrom performing the constitutional powers The Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine hereby resolves:
To confer the powers of the President of Ukraine on Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine Turchynov Oleksandr Valentynovych according to article 112 of the Constitution of Ukraine.
The given Resolution shall enter into force upon its adoption."
1) I think we are going in circles here. What Germany ultimately wanted was the lands that belonged to USSR as this was always their primary target. This was their open strategy and Allies, Poland and USSR knew about these plans. Poland just happened to be in the way and had to allow access either diplomatically or be forced to provide access. They could concede lands, but that in my opinion this would ultimately not have saved them as Slavs and Jews inhabiting Poland were to be exterminated after Nazis were done with USSR.
With the benefit of hindsight - Western Europe and Poland should have allied with USSR sooner and contained Germany, by eg intervening at Czechoslovakia before Wehrmacht militarized and got access to Czechoslovakian military supplies. Alas this was not done as pre-war politics of Europe was a complicated hot mess, fueled by fear of communism. It feels we are repeating the mistakes of the past again, arming people that openly state that they are exterminating
untermenshen and orcs. There are no former Nazis - people like that never change. Imagine they actually win. Are you ready?
2) They do and it’s already happening. You probably should revisit your understanding of how Russians define the goal of “denazification”. Maybe you are confused.
Mind you Ukraine has already agreed to comply with this requirement in Istanbul peace process, so theoretically this is still on the table in any future ceasefire/peace agreement. Again, as I mentioned before, they will have to implement these amendments anyway if they ever wish to join the European Union as this is a part of mandatory required laws.
3) “Cuba was never invaded by USA”. Sweet summer child, you have much to learn.
5) The excerpt you posted is that of one of the opposition leaders that conducted the coup d etat - Mr Turchynov - becoming interim president, circumventing official legal due process. Is this relevant?
It is actually true that Russia did eventually recognize Petr Poroshenko (against their better judgement and with assurances from France and Germany) as elected president to resolve Donbass conflict together with France and Germany in Minsk format, but as we now know from Merkel and Hollande themselves - they never intended to resolve the conflict and wanted to buy Ukraine time so Ukraine could recapture Donbass by force.
This post was edited by Malopox on Feb 12 2024 11:50am