science doesnt have hard proof for its concepts, it has tangible or empirical evidence that can be then used to support said claims or concepts.

shroud of turin is a fine example w/ regard to the bible. carbon dating is not a hard proof for example, it is a technological chemical process that relies on the validity of its theory of transferring -40k into argon as a way of measuring

unlike scientific theories however the bible offers theological concepts that can then be used to qualify its claims.
so if the bible says people are demonically possessed and act a certain way & then one sees an abortion doc acting that way then the bible offers predictive power in the form of its concepting, a virtue of science.

freud's take on displacement does the same thing we he theorizes that pent up negative energy gets transferred onto a target. seeing how both are true is how you enter "heaven".

if you understood that science is built on philosophy and philosophy built on art, youd see that both science and religious claims are artful, however they are both subject to lobbying, conflicted interest(s), & political addendums.

This post was edited by lodd222 on Aug 8 2023 02:36pm

Another excuse. If there are talking snakes one can demonstrate them with a phone camera, or public display, one can also bring it to a lab in front of several scientists who can peer review it.
Carbon dating is fairly accurate measurement of dating especially recent a few thousand years that the bible claims it's magic.
There is such as thing is as very reliable evidence and highly unreliable evidence. For example a video footage, voice recording, physical samples such as DNA, fossils, detailed records from many reputable sources etc.
Unreliable evidence is when some guy at a pub told that he heard from another guy, who heard from his sisters cousin, or hearsay or a metaphor, or a hypothetical, maybe, could be, prove that he doesnt exist, a guy from this book who was swallowed by a whale and lived inside for 3 days told us.

This is fermented camel piss talking about wild bed time stories designed to control iron age minds. Then to get rich of their donations.

The church has profited enormously over peoples stupidity over the last several thousand years. It's a perfect scam

Dawkins, at the ripe old age of 82, is finally realizing that he was wrong the entire time

I pity him as he is an extremely intelligent man. I pray that he makes it right with God before he passes.

so you'd be trying to desperately say something like ~ the bible is a very obscured secondary source and therefore attempts to exploit the naivety of the unsuspecting good hearted christian.
this is true, but so do the science books and mostly everything for that matter.
when science becomes a conflict of interest or lobbied, it becomes scientism, a bunch of guys paid to wu wu and remain in peer review power as long as they say yes to those who pay them, etc.
the issue w/ your perspective is it relies on trust for authority, no different than prayer to priest and the bible warns that the world is mostly to not be trusted because it is the biproduct of evil intent and historically that's the most popular view that humanity has held.


you are touting totaltarinism and you dont even know it and its no different than people looking to their priest for forgiveness in order to live, - that you said youre against.
tldr bad leadership and its corresponding flawed theology is the reason the bible doesnt make sense to you and why aetheism and or evolution doesnt make sense to many christians.
youre actively propagating divide and conquer when you point out the christian issues but defend the same flaws of your own non existent fueled evolutionary views.

they want some one who wont dangle carrots under a house of lies, and thats what 2023 is currently.
the bulk of people dont want more of the science says nonsense, they want to see it, feel it and trust in a system of benefit they worked into.
science cannot compensate for lack of knowledge and lack of knowledge makes science a dangerous tool. religion? even more so unfortunately.

yes fermented can piss and iron age minds is the fabric of interdimensional propriety, & the piss came from a sound theological construct that was made manifest.
the Christian says for surely god made me i cannot make myself, and the evolutionists say it was generated by intelligence particles that dont require intelligence & you are an illusion.

the reality is it was created by intelligence but that intelligence is no longer there. neither side can except this plausible truth.

How do you know that many of the modern axioms of science are true?

Have you ever reproduced the photoelectric effect yourself? Have you reproduced Rutherford's alpha particle gold foil experiment?

If not, why do you believe their conclusions are true? You believe they are true because you have faith that the writers of the articles are telling the truth, and that the experiments did in fact happen and produced the results that they reported.

How do you know that the authors were not lying? And subsequently, how do you know that anyone who reproduced those experiments are not also lying?

This is no different than believing in, for example, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We have faith that the people who reported it were telling the truth.

Now you might say: Well, I have all this modern technology that was developed using those fundamental scientific axioms, therefore I know that they are true. However you can also make this same argument in favour of religion: We live in this wonderful country with modern amenities & laws, which includes the freedom and ability to write freely on this forum without persecution, that were developed using the fundamental axioms of Abrahamic (and Greco-Roman) religion. Therefore, we know that it is true.

This post was edited by El1te on Aug 8 2023 04:38pm

im still waiting on you to show me any science that troubles scripture

your first one
there is a claim the arc of the covenant was found. it was underground under were Jesus was crucified. it is said to have dried blood on it (blood of the sacrificed animals was sprinkled one the mercy seat when it was in use). when Jesus was crucified and the roman put the spear into his side and the earth cracked the blood went down the crack and dripped on the mercy seat. so? its said a sample of the blood was taken and tested and the test came back unusual.

but?? if i was to find this story you would just poopoo all over it your mind all ready made up. so you see there is no amount of evidence that would make you even consider any other thing???

remember the scripture about snakes being cursed to crawl on their belly??? and the fossil evidence that says snakes used to have legs?



nice sentiment

You certainly don't do a very good job at ignoring my posts, whoever you are.



Because your mind is already made up before the evidence is presented to you. You don't feel that the Bible is relevant to you? Why? I'll tell you.

It's because you do not think you are a sinner who is in need of saving. Once you realize this and you read the Bible with that in mind, everything should be a lot more clear to you.

I can quote 100's of references but you'll simply reply with one sentence saying: "That's not evidence" without expanding further.

There is a reason I keep on quoting Frodo's first point.

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

It all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain, which this world sees, is the result of sin.

while that is true, the issue is how do you do that and not realize that the creator of the human soul is obviously not here? because thats what the atheist's or going to keep telling you to realize backhandedly as they imply that god is responsible for horrible things done to people who aren't guilty by inherited sin alone. if sin is inherited by inaction then asking them to perform an action even of belief isnt actually congruent or fair especially when considering they suffer for making that action even more, though it would be preserving of their soul. forgiveness could be free but if choice or free will is altered then that sense of agency would further obfuscate the implication - satan could simply impede your free will as it did in the beginning.

if you are mourning for the loss of your god, the creator of tne soul, then i think a true religion could form but until then it's because things are messed up = worship a messed up doctrine. you can see that it actively prevents you from growing your soul.

the other option from a cultural standpoint is to worship a process of discovery that would attempt to reduce everything to external business instead of self reflection or internal examination, but that self examination becomes reduced to a controlled script when you crutch on bible alone.

This post was edited by lodd222 on Aug 9 2023 01:14am

We go out of the house knowing there is corruption and a small chance to get killed, lied cheated.
Just because science or modern technology isn't perfect and sometimes there is politics involved doesn't mean we give an excuse not to use it.

It's infinitely better than, " this book that talks about magical creatures and actual magic."

Once again a lame excuse is all you got