1. i never said similar level of violence was acceptable, i just contextualized the threat both face

2. im sure the ukranian perspective does feel as much dread, but the lack of genocidal intent is again factual context

i DONT support excess violence, regardless of the genocide israelites face. my first question was asking you if a stop to bombing would change your opinion, and i said i support stopping bombing.

You dont pay with the same coin then clearly.

The same trapping of genocide are apparent with Russias action in Ukraine as they are in Hamas' actions in Israel.

Just because Putin doesn't broadcast his intentions the same as Hamas. Doesn't mean the intent is not there.
However in his own writings he does claim that Ukraine does not exist; markedly similar to Hamas not recognizing Israel.

If Zelensky had not stayed and Ukrainians had not fought back. Russia may have taken Kiev and obliterated any existence of the Ukrainian state/identity.

they share some similarities, but to suggest they're the same is absurd. putin does not want to exterminate every man, woman, and child in Ukraine. he wants to control ukraine. the comparison here is not worth my time so if thats all you have ill step away. i asked u about ceasing bombing, u said i support total war.

"mission accomplished"



This post was edited by Meanwhile on Oct 18 2023 07:43am

Ah good old GWB.


GWB, locked in his position for spreading democracy across the middle-east (worked really well obviously), left Palestine in ruins after their 2006 election when Hamas took power. Israel in the meantime essentially moved fully to the right with its left wing dissolving and the two-state solution was pretty much lost.

That was the end of funding for Palestine though, no point in the USA providing funding anymore if it wasn't going to net jewish votes in America.

I have to wonder where we didn't make worse off during the early to mid 2000's.

investment in palestine was a done deal under the Abraham accords. the rise in tensions isn't entirely to kill that deal, but it surely plays a part. peace in the middle east can never be accomplished with 2 factions of Islam at war with each other, Israel just draws more headlines because western media is afraid to step into the fray in the Iran vs. Saudi war.

+2 Well said was wondering what you think are the root causes for being in the Middle East in the first place? I was born in 1990 and obviously aware of 9/11 being a major catalyst but I know little about Iran contra and the Oil embargo and other Middle Eastern affairs we've involved ourselves in. I have friends who served in Iraq/Afghanistan and both said they spent a lot of time..

1) Securing Oil refineries & Opium fields.
2) Building large military installations to have a permanent presence in the Middle East.
3) ?
4) ?
5) ?

Was curious if the US government/ Military industrial Complex had other reasons for being there.

For example I think the US leaving behind all that military equipment in Afghanistan was for a multitude of reasons but mainly to create a "vacuum of power" where some of the worst people got ahold of that equipment and used it for their own means. What's your take you seem well read in this

TIA

I mean, if were being honest the USA has always had a vested interest in the success of Israel. It's always been a foothold that is subject to our influence. It's not just money, the West has moved massive industry there in the form of R&D. Its always been a start up nation story with 2/3rds of all R&D being for the USA.

Its always going to be prosperous with that much backing compared to the neighbours I suspect. Even before that there was a vested interest in Europe to see Isreal become a nation, killed two birds with one stone. A foothold in the middle east and in their own words at the time.... got rid of the Jews in Europe.

If I recall in the GWB era even GWB called back Israel after they got a little excited with killing. GWB yanked on the leash and told them to heel. Money always talks.

This post was edited by SBD on Oct 18 2023 08:53am

In between US or Israel... I am not sure which one is dragging the other deeper in shit.