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Aug 30 2019 11:52pm
I like the massive lead of obma/cough ment Trump.

Libs crying when killary would have been forced to do what are Leader had to do.

I respect him as a man.

Libs act like we aren’t helping deports.

They want any reason to cry, cept Killary would have done the same thing but got impeached.

Leave my dude alone.

Biggest gang in history and terriosm, let’s move everyone in!!

Trump wins twice for a reason.

Not sjw agendas

This post was edited by Durantchoke on Aug 30 2019 11:55pm
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Aug 31 2019 01:02am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 30 2019 09:19pm)
You make it sound like Comey was an apolitical actor with innocent motives who happened to learn after the conversations with the "corrupt" president that others from his community were good citizens just like him and shared his innocuous concern and sense of civic duties in the face of unspeakable evil and corruption.
The reality was best described by Goom:

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=81787808&f=119&p=549626525

The IG report leaves no doubt that Comey, McCabe and others were biased, political actors from the get go. What was happening was not, as you put it, "a corrupt president trying to put his thumb on the scale of justice". What was really happening is that a group of disloyal, politically biased members of the intelligence community tried to tip the scales of democracy. They tried to "politically snipe" the president without having nearly enough evidence to justify such a drastic step. It was a shitty attempt at pulling off some sort of coup. And as it turned out in the end, this president might be a somewhat corrupt and shady figure, but he was never compromised by foreign powers.

Referring specifically to this part:


Trump is a president who quite cleary was not well versed in the protocols/proper handling of such delicate issues; someone who was used to being the unchecked decider of his own little empire; someone who's unfamiliar with the separation of powers and not even realizing how inappropriate some of the things he was saying to Comey actually were. Hillary, on the other hand, is an experienced, shrewd career politician. There is simply more reason to give Trump the benefit of the doubt when it comes to "rookie mistakes" like these.

Would it really have been too much to ask of Comey, after Trump was probing him about Flynn, to say something like: "I'm sorry mister President, but that's not possible. I understand your loyalty to your former confidant and that you want to help him, but please understand that Flynn is a suspect accused of a very serious crime that we cannot possibly ignore. Please also understand that it is not usual for the President, as the head of the Administration, to personally interfere in FBI investigations. Despite good intentions, such behavior is a violation of the separation of powers and could easily get you in hot water with Congress or the media."

Instead, Comey apparently assumed that Trump was some sort of Manchurian candidate, a puppet of Putin compromised by a piss hooker video, and acted like a poor man's James Bond during his futile attempts at setting Trump up.


I'm not going into whatever Goom posted... I didn't read it. The plain reality is that Trump asked his FBI Director for a loyalty pledge and requested his former NSA be "let go" from the consequences of an investigation. It's completely reasonable for Comey to be troubled by those actions, and to record them immediately afterwards. It's also reasonable for him to sound the alarm bells in some way after he gets abruptly fired.

I understand that Trump supporters want to minimize and deflect from those corrupt actions by the president. Why not just own it? Don't hide behind weak excuses like "Trump was new at this". That same excuse wouldn't fly if it was Obama. Trump is a man of poor character who was acting corruptly when he asked that Comey let Flynn off. That doesn't mean Comey was a completely unbiased actor in other ways. Two things can be true at once.

Oh, and if I remember correctly from the report, Bannon and/or Priebus told the president that meeting with the FBI Director alone was improper(before the loyalty pledge dinner, I think).

This post was edited by IceMage on Aug 31 2019 01:07am
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Aug 31 2019 01:29am
Quote (IceMage @ 31 Aug 2019 09:02)
It's completely reasonable for Comey to be troubled by those actions, and to record them immediately afterwards.


Read the summary of Horowitz's report. Comey did not record his conversation with Trump after an unexpected, troubling meeting - he had the intention of setting up Trump and catching him make a mistake since day 1.


Quote
Trump is a man of poor character who was acting corruptly when he asked that Comey let Flynn off.


Hmmm, I dont wanna go too deep into semantics, but I wouldnt say it is clear that he was acting with corrupt intent when he asked Comey for this favor. It seems plausible to me that Trump, in this moment, really didnt know better and just wanted to help his friend who he perceived as unfairly prosecuted.


Quote
That doesn't mean Comey was a completely unbiased actor in other ways. Two things can be true at once.


Fair enough. However, Comey's overt bias makes his version of the story less credible. Doesnt mean Trump's version has to be more credible than Comey's, but it does hurt Comey's credibility.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 31 2019 01:30am
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Aug 31 2019 01:51am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 31 2019 03:29am)
Read the summary of Horowitz's report. Comey did not record his conversation with Trump after an unexpected, troubling meeting - he had the intention of setting up Trump and catching him make a mistake since day 1.




Hmmm, I dont wanna go too deep into semantics, but I wouldnt say it is clear that he was acting with corrupt intent when he asked Comey for this favor. It seems plausible to me that Trump, in this moment, really didnt know better and just wanted to help his friend who he perceived as unfairly prosecuted.




Fair enough. However, Comey's overt bias makes his version of the story less credible. Doesnt mean Trump's version has to be more credible than Comey's, but it does hurt Comey's credibility.


You're referring to Comey writing a memo after the pre-inauguration Trump tower meeting? I don't know why that would indicate Comey was some political actor trying to set Trump up. It shows that Comey understood that this was a sensitive thing he was presenting to the president, and Trump is a pathological liar, and Trump could eventually become a target of the Russia investigation, and thus recording the events immediately after seems obviously appropriate. Considering the vast amount of scrutiny that has come upon Comey, it turns out he was very wise to record all these memos.

This is the disconnect time and time again... we're looking at the same facts, and you guys just assume bad motives.

Whether Trump was intentionally or unintentionally acting corruptly, it doesn't really matter to the FBI Director. It's suspect behavior and recording a memo afterwards was appropriate.
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Aug 31 2019 03:27am
John Solomon calling out WaPo;

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/459472-comeys-classified-misconduct-and-the-medias-flawed-coverage-of-it

TLDR: Comey leaked classified information that he failed to mark as classified information, which was his responsibility. IG Horowitz specifically called out Comey's misconduct in not marking his classified documents, and now both Comey and WaPo are trying to cover for him by saying that it wasn't really classified information, because it was never marked. Using his own misconduct to excuse his misconduct. That doesn't work.

Quote
This is the disconnect time and time again... we're looking at the same facts, and you guys just assume bad motives.


I gave Comey the benefit of the doubt and looked for the plausible boy-scout explanations for the past few years, but IG Horowitz laid out his bad motives and bad actions.
Right now Comey is the pathological liar and we've seen he was plainly setting Trump up, trying to exploit the pretense of an intelligence briefing to ambush Trump with a harebrained entrapment scheme.

It would take an incredibly dismal view of how government agencies are supposed to work with each other if you think its even remotely appropriate for an FBI director to be using every tool at his disposal to try to undermine a president in a deceptive manner when his stated job description is to serve at the president's pleasure, keep him informed and the agency functional. The FBI director is not a spy, the president is not an intelligence target. Roleplaying a Le Carre novel IRL is utterly insane. I don't see how you can support a view of government where everyone is tripping over their dicks to backstab one another and leak to the media to advance their agenda. That chaos is damaging to the republic and not good for anyone. And its mystifying how we're supposed to juxtapose an strongly held ideal of respectable, virtuous leadership and a willingness to excuse a rat fiesta.
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Aug 31 2019 10:47am
Quote (Goomshill @ 31 Aug 2019 11:27)
John Solomon calling out WaPo;

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/459472-comeys-classified-misconduct-and-the-medias-flawed-coverage-of-it

TLDR: Comey leaked classified information that he failed to mark as classified information, which was his responsibility. IG Horowitz specifically called out Comey's misconduct in not marking his classified documents, and now both Comey and WaPo are trying to cover for him by saying that it wasn't really classified information, because it was never marked. Using his own misconduct to excuse his misconduct. That doesn't work.



I gave Comey the benefit of the doubt and looked for the plausible boy-scout explanations for the past few years, but IG Horowitz laid out his bad motives and bad actions.
Right now Comey is the pathological liar and we've seen he was plainly setting Trump up, trying to exploit the pretense of an intelligence briefing to ambush Trump with a harebrained entrapment scheme.

It would take an incredibly dismal view of how government agencies are supposed to work with each other if you think its even remotely appropriate for an FBI director to be using every tool at his disposal to try to undermine a president in a deceptive manner when his stated job description is to serve at the president's pleasure, keep him informed and the agency functional. The FBI director is not a spy, the president is not an intelligence target. Roleplaying a Le Carre novel IRL is utterly insane. I don't see how you can support a view of government where everyone is tripping over their dicks to backstab one another and leak to the media to advance their agenda. That chaos is damaging to the republic and not good for anyone. And its mystifying how we're supposed to juxtapose an strongly held ideal of respectable, virtuous leadership and a willingness to excuse a rat fiesta.


You're not gonna find common ground here. Dems and Dem-leaning deep staters did consider Trump an intelligence target, no matter if he was already under official investigation or not, and they do consider it in the interest of the republic to stymie Trump's presidency with whatever dirty means necessary. But god forbid if Trump calls any of them "enemy of the people". :rofl:

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Aug 31 2019 11:08am
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 31 2019 05:27am)
John Solomon calling out WaPo;

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/459472-comeys-classified-misconduct-and-the-medias-flawed-coverage-of-it

TLDR: Comey leaked classified information that he failed to mark as classified information, which was his responsibility. IG Horowitz specifically called out Comey's misconduct in not marking his classified documents, and now both Comey and WaPo are trying to cover for him by saying that it wasn't really classified information, because it was never marked. Using his own misconduct to excuse his misconduct. That doesn't work.

I gave Comey the benefit of the doubt and looked for the plausible boy-scout explanations for the past few years, but IG Horowitz laid out his bad motives and bad actions.
Right now Comey is the pathological liar and we've seen he was plainly setting Trump up, trying to exploit the pretense of an intelligence briefing to ambush Trump with a harebrained entrapment scheme.

It would take an incredibly dismal view of how government agencies are supposed to work with each other if you think its even remotely appropriate for an FBI director to be using every tool at his disposal to try to undermine a president in a deceptive manner when his stated job description is to serve at the president's pleasure, keep him informed and the agency functional. The FBI director is not a spy, the president is not an intelligence target. Roleplaying a Le Carre novel IRL is utterly insane. I don't see how you can support a view of government where everyone is tripping over their dicks to backstab one another and leak to the media to advance their agenda. That chaos is damaging to the republic and not good for anyone. And its mystifying how we're supposed to juxtapose an strongly held ideal of respectable, virtuous leadership and a willingness to excuse a rat fiesta.


Yes, Comey's memos, which were written to recall Trump's corrupt behavior, were later retroactively classified and labeled FBI property. We've covered this. Who cares? It's a relatively minor infraction. The real story is that Trump acted like a corrupt idiot.

Now you're just stating conclusions... and not providing any real evidence for them. Had the president just shut up and not acted like a corrupt weirdo, the FBI investigation would've concluded that him and his campaign never conspired with the Russians. He brought all of this bullshit on himself. But cultists can't ever admit that he's the source of his problems.... not Comey, not the deep state, not Democrats. He's responsible.

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Aug 31 2019 11:17am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 31 2019 12:47pm)
You're not gonna find common ground here. Dems and Dem-leaning deep staters did consider Trump an intelligence target, no matter if he was already under official investigation or not, and they do consider it in the interest of the republic to stymie Trump's presidency with whatever dirty means necessary. But god forbid if Trump calls any of them "enemy of the people". :rofl:


Calling lifelong Republicans "Dems and Dem-leaning deep staters" is cultish retard territory. It's rational for people with integrity and independence to treat Trump a certain way. Not because he supports building a wall. Not because his skin is orange. But because he's a pathological liar and he acted like a guilty man in regards to the Russia investigation.

This post was edited by IceMage on Aug 31 2019 11:18am
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Aug 31 2019 11:20am
I still think he would make a great Dracula or at least a strong role in the vampire council
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Aug 31 2019 11:24am
Quote (IceMage @ 31 Aug 2019 19:17)
Calling lifelong Republicans "Dems and Dem-leaning deep staters" is cultish retard territory. It's rational for people with integrity and independence to treat Trump a certain way. Not because he supports building a wall. Not because his skin is orange. But because he's a pathological liar and acted like a guilty man in regards to the Russia investigation.


Parties change over time. The Republican party under Trump is very different from that under Bush Sr. or Jr.

"They are lifelong Republicans" is a nice, catchy talking point, but let's not kid ourselves: these people are a lot more aligned with Hillary, or the Democrats in general, when it comes to foreign policy than with Trump.
An honest conversation must acknowledge that if the GOP had been 'Trumpian' when they started their careers, they'd have become lifelong Democrats.

So yes, they technically still are members of the Republican party, but effectively, they're Democrats - due to their agenda and policy views, not because of their opposition to Trump the individual!

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 31 2019 11:24am
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