Quote (Black XistenZ @ 3 Dec 2018 12:51)

of course italy's economic problems predate the migration crisis. the reason I'm not strictly against Salvini despite his (and his party's) problematic economic policies is that they are only a problem for the rest of the eurozone because of the euro itself. without the misconstructed euro, italy could simply create higher inflation and keep its debt in check this way. I actually think that Salvini wants to leave the Eurozone in the long run, which is a stance I'd agree with. Italy's financial policy just doesnt fit a currency union. so when it comes to the euro itself, and the question whether it should be defended "whatever it takes", or whether it should rather be rescinded, I and many "right-wing populists" are on the same page as Salvini.

on top of that, as I explained yesterday, I consider the migration crisis to be the more pressing problem right now. as I said: only after the migration is under control does it make sense to turn back to our other domestic issues, which of course includes the financial instability and economic divergence in europe.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 3 Dec 2018 12:58)

just to clarify this: the biggest factor in power prices is the oil (or gas or coal) price, which is heavily influenced by the state of the world economy. therefore, I chose 2009 as the starting point since that's the year in which the current economic cycle started.

moreover, what you wrote isnt even true. 2009 did not have extremely low grid fees in the sense of "an outlier", the years before it had even lower grid prices. it was after 2009, and even more so since 2011, that grid fees went through the roof.

Quote (EndlessSky @ 3 Dec 2018 12:48)

Thats funny, from your graphic the costs now would be lower than 2012 if not for the taxes.

Quote (ampoo @ 3 Dec 2018 13:33)

some people just read statistics like they want and if it doesnt work they make something up

Quote (ampoo @ 2 Dec 2018 18:23)

electricity prices have DOUBLED since 2016 and are still rising for sake of ridiculous subsidy for renewable energy

Quote (fender @ 3 Dec 2018 13:47)

true, leading to moronic claims like this one for example:

Quote (ampoo @ 3 Dec 2018 13:48)

that claim is a fact
this is getting ridiculous

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 3 2018 01:14pm)

it was the start of the current economic cycle. what's so hard to understand with this term?

and he was talking about grid fees anyway, which shouldnt be affected by the economic cycle.

Quote (fender @ 3 Dec 2018 13:54)

#alternative facts

ridiculous indeed...

Quote (ampoo @ Dec 3 2018 02:05pm)

interesting, so its an alternative fact when prices on the electricity market have doubled, where everyone is buying/selling, that includes local suppliers as well and who is eventually paying for that?
the working class customer

seriously, if your limited intellectual capacities do not allow you to have a discussion you can tell me, i understand

but stop embarrassing yourself please

p.s: posting an actual argument might help

Quote (Knoppie @ 3 Dec 2018 14:07)

Your only arguement against fender is: "You are rediculous". Not much of a starting point to have this opinion.

Quote (ampoo @ Dec 3 2018 11:32am)

we are literally failing at everything, emissions arent going down, energy is becoming less affordable each year and the stability of our supply in general is at stake

Quote (Knoppie @ 3 Dec 2018 13:59)

Nah, you wanted to make an argument that gridfees went up 27% from the lowest point on the grapth till now. To make volatile renewable energy sound scary. But I'm glad we're taking economic cycles in considiration now, because then you should compare more like ~2006 to the current grid price, as it is somewhat of a similar point to where we are now in our cycle.. --> Grid price skyrocketed by an outragious 5% !!

Glad we can agree that this is probably a bit higher than those 5%, but not as high as 27%.

Quote (Knoppie @ 3 Dec 2018 15:53)

emissions going down:
https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/fig0_german_economic_growth_power_and_energy_consumption_ghg_emissions_1990_-_2017_1.png
/e: Admittedly the past few years the drop of emissions have stagnated, partially due to increasing GDP, and closing nuclear reactors. I'm not a fan of the latter, but closing coal plants will help with reducing emmisions.

stability not at stake:
https://www.bmwi-energiewende.de/EWD/Redaktion/EN/Newsletter/2017/01/Meldung/infografik.html

Prices going up because investing in renewable costs money. Eventually citizens are going to pay for it one way or the other. But other than that Germany seems to have reached its goal in 2017, only seem to be overproducing energy now, making it potentially possible to close coal plants.
https://energytransition.org/2018/01/german-energy-consumption-2017/