If you were unconscious, would I protest to protect you or allow to you be aborted because you aren't a conscious entity yet?

Never having been capable of consciousness != not currently conscious

Harm Reduction is a concept entirely lost on the religious.

Essentialism in general IMO. We need to wipe that kind of thinking from our species if we're gonna go forward. Black and white thinking, faith, and other things that are intended to go unexamined need to be snuffed out and killed.

You can't wordplay your way out of the fact that about half of the unborn human beings killed by abortion will grow up to be women.

I'm not opposed to reasonable sex education, starting at an appropriate age, in public schools.

The notion that because we live in a secular nation, moral positions derived(partially or fully) from religious beliefs are inherently illegitimate, is laughable. You'll just have to accept that religious people have moral positions, just like anyone else, and they will try to influence the law in a way that is consistent with their beliefs.



Contraceptive promotion in school is quite low on my list of concerns... but simply from a principled position, I cannot support the promotion of grave sin so that good can come of it.

You used to have a consciousness prior to that. A fertilized embryo, not so much

Good to know you'll be leaving us soon, then.

It's interesting to me because such rigid philosophical grandstanding on low-level concerns actually worsens the outcomes for your higher-level concerns.

How so?

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you're moving the goal post. my point is that a fetus is not a woman. it's not a person. at the stage that's relevant for this debate, you are NOT protecting women's rights by banning abortions, that's just silly wordplay. you are restricting a person's right of bodily autonomy because you don't understand the difference. or do you? should a woman having an abortion be charged with murder?

also, i never suggested your morals were "inherently illegitimate" - what i'm saying is that they are YOURS, and should not determine how OTHER people live their lives. you're fully entitled to your simplistic takes on human life and women's rights, as is every other individual - all i'm saying is that in a secular state, lawmakers should not let those religious sensitivities restrict the rights of people who simply don't share them.

concerning schools, my point is that they should teach COMPREHENSIVE sex education - not whatever some religious zealot considers "reasonable" or "appropriate" - those are two very different things i would imagine. the latter is how you ended up having the highest rate of teen pregnancies amongst "developed" nations. if you really want fewer abortions, start by educating your kids properly.

This post was edited by fender on Dec 4 2021 04:05pm