I'm talking about the wealthiest financiers who run the planet, not right wing governments trying to implement fascism in successful leftist states. We agree that e.g. overthrowing successful states like Allende's Chile vs Pinochet is a bad deal for everyone involved except the fascists.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Sep 2 2020 09:38pm

What's even more interesting is that "social democracy", where it does exist, is primarily defined and supported by shared heritage, language, and culture. All fundamentally right-wing ideals. There isn't such a thing as international socialism because it cannot exist. At the end of the day, Stalin was more right than Trotsky after all.

I dont think this make sense. You make three statements:

- the wealthy financiers who run the world were "so friendly" to communist (or communist in name only) states
- the right-wing governments in openly capitalistic countries act on behalf of those powers that be
- the same right-wing governments tried to stage coups and overthrow leftist states

Logically, only 2 out of those 3 statements can be true at the same time.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 2 2020 09:54pm

Sure, the Bolsheviks were the right wing, the Mensheviks who were purged and murdered were the left. And Trotsky was the center right, not even a Menshevik. And let's not forget Lenin's book, "Left Communism is a Mental Disorder." Most of the people you guys try to call leftists are anything but.

And I guess in the rest of your post you're trying to say Nationalist Socialism does in fact work?

Exactly. Heterogeneity directly undermines solidarity. Now guess why the Democrats and corporate America try everything in their power to force a "diversity is our strength"-mindset on the entire country...

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 2 2020 09:58pm

National socialism was bankrupt (literally). Autarky was a mistake. The racial obsession with eugenics was a leftist invention (see Planned Parenthood). The difference between left and right socially is the extent to which they attack or defend social and cultural institutions. From that perspective, the Nazis were fundamentally a revolutionary movement, whereas the Chinese since Deng have been fundamentally conservative.

I'm just making the redundant distinction between the state and federal enforcement
The DA for Multnomah County is Mike Schmidt, who has taken an official policy of refusing to charge or prosecute rioters who are arrested on anything less than violent felony offenses (won't prosecute either misdemeanor violence or non-violent felonies), and also he's taken the unofficial policy of not prosecuting violent felony offenses by antifa either, as seen by the gun charges on the antifa shooter being dropped. Basically, Antifa has complete impunity as long as its up to him.
Now that the state patrols are deputized by the feds and feds are prosecuting assaults on them as federal crimes, Oregon U.S. Attorney Billy Williams has brought federal charges against the first 2 antifa rioters
On top of that, they also announced federal charges in a bomb threat plot by an antifa guy today;
https://thepostmillennial.com/seattle-man-arrested-by-feds-for-threatening-to-blow-up-portland-police-station-antifa
that one was brought by the DoJ

so basically, they're going to search for every way to squeeze federal jurisdiction into the portland riots and haul away as many antifa as they can

Sigh. OK this is a really long, in depth conversation in and of itself but I'm going to give you the short short, wholly inadequate version.

The United States (state capitalists with a limited market system combined with corporate imperialism) and the USSR (state capitalists with an even more limited market system opposing corporate imperialism but supporting ideological imperialism) united to fight fascism in Germany and Italy (which both promoted cultural preservation and manifestation centered around nationalism as their central tenant. They opposed worldwide capitalism and international communism and promoted a Third Way).

Globalist monopoly capitalists are the host nations to TPTB.

The opposition in the nationalistic fascist states staged coups and overthrew left internationalists (not globalists, they are a very different thing than internationalists) and installed right nationalist governments.

I know that almost sounds like right wing fascist nationalists are the good guy out group fighting everyone else, and this is absolutely a reason so many people are attracted to far right movements today, but the internationalist anti-globalists on the left are the ones I see as the good guys wheres the fascist nationalists and the globalist state capitalists are both bad guys.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Sep 2 2020 10:29pm

I don't disagree with any of this except eugenics, which was generally supported by left and right alike until it became associated with violent genocide and racial supremacy rather than benevolent scientific principles to increase fitness (which would include rather than exclude miscegeny for example).

But the CIA carried out those coups, and they belong to a globalist state (the U.S.) rather than a genuinely nationalistic one... why would the CIA help an opposition in a foreign state if, as you contend, this opposition has an incompatible ideology (globalist vs nationalist)?
Also... did CIA-led coups really only ever take place at the requrest of fascist opposition groups, were there really never CIA coups initiated by the U.S. itself? My knowledge of this part of history is superficial, but that doesnt sound plausible.


One thing I can agree with is that the distinction between globalists and internationalists is super important, yet almost never made these days.