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Aug 4 2015 05:14pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ 4 Aug 2015 23:10)
Viv, i simply don't know only God does. Most people that consider themselves experts can only give you estimates not concrete answers on this question so for me to sit here and try and throw numbers out is pointless.


You see my confusion comes from your evolution denying and rejection of many of the scientific answers to the age of the earth...

I suppose I'm just trying to get you to state your beliefs so I can have an accurate sense of what position you're arguing from.

So what you're saying is you think the Earth is old but don't know how old but you don't accept the current scientific consensus of approximately 4.5 billion years and that you believe God put man on this Earth in his current form and that evolution is a lie?

Tell me if I got anything wrong here...

This post was edited by Scaly on Aug 4 2015 05:14pm
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Aug 4 2015 05:24pm
Quote (Scaly @ Aug 4 2015 04:14pm)
You see my confusion comes from your evolution denying and rejection of many of the scientific answers to the age of the earth...

I suppose I'm just trying to get you to state your beliefs so I can have an accurate sense of what position you're arguing from.

So what you're saying is you think the Earth is old but don't know how old but you don't accept the current scientific consensus ofapproximately 4.5 billion years and that you believe God put man on this Earth in his current form and that evolution is a lie?

Tell me if I got anything wrong here...


Like i said no one knows for sure.

Yes i reject the claims of evolution that humans are a byproduct of chance+time. As i posted in another thread i simply do not believe that human consciousness is a result of amino acids randomly coming together one day and eventually evolving into the creature we call human today.

I humbly admit i don't know what happened, only God does. But the arrogance of many people thinking a theory explains undoubtedly the complexity of what has transpired is nothing short of foolishness.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Aug 4 2015 05:24pm
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Aug 4 2015 05:34pm
Quote (IceMage @ 4 Aug 2015 17:56)
How would you ever develop this clear idea that homosexual relations are wrong? What would make you suddenly believe that? The answer: nothing, and certainly not anything in the holy text of the religion you claim to be a part of.

That's the thing... anything in the Bible which doesn't match your beliefs is put into the "not really the word of God" bin. You have no real process of determining what scripture is the word of God.

I don't care what you do, but I don't think it's possible for a person to be this skeptical of their holy text and remain faithful. Wishful thinking.



Perhaps none?

You can't come to a conclusion without a time machine because your belief is built on a shaky foundation.

John 20:29
New International Version
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

The essence of the ideas conveyed remains the same. 99% of textual variants do not change the meaning of the text. I really think you have been misled on this subject, or perhaps you are misleading yourself in order to avoid confronting your non-Christian beliefs.



Like I said above, textual variants are almost always irrelevant. I don't know of any good reason to think whole portions of the Bible were taken out or edited in. The Bible was written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is God-breathed.


NSRV
Leviticus 18:
19 You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 You shall not have sexual relations with your kinsman’s wife, and defile yourself with her. 21 You shall not give any of your offspring to sacrifice them[d] to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 23 You shall not have sexual relations with any animal and defile yourself with it, nor shall any woman give herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it: it is perversion.
Leviticus 19:
27 You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard. 28 You shall not make any gashes in your flesh for the dead or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the Lord.

33 When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. 34 The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.


Quote
In Christian circles we sometimes meet the argument that "homosexual behavior" is the worst of sins and that God hates homosexuals. This is usually based on an "abomination" text, assuming this to indicate that same-gender sex is a worse sin than heterosexual sex in the same context. But is this really what the Bible says?

I believe that a careful study of the texts will yield quite different conclusions.* So please join me in an investigation of the matter.

Sexual sins of any kind are considered "abominations" to the Lord. See Leviticus 18: 18 - 30, paying particular attention to verses 27 - 30, which refer to "all these abominations" – after various kinds of sexual activities apart from marriage have been mentioned. A similar list is repeated in Leviticus 20, concluding that God's people ought not to do these things "after the manner of the nations which I cast out before you." We find that the levitical laws also forbade remarriages of divorced couples, calling such an act an "abomination." (Deuteronomy 24: 1 - 4) When we consider that Christ amplified these laws to include the lustful thought, who is without sin to cast the first stone?

Dishonest business practices are named as an "abomination" in Deuteronomy 25: 13 - 16, Proverbs 11: 1 and Proverbs 20: 10. It seems that scrupulously honest business practices are required of any professing to be the Lord's people. Do our practices pass the careful scrutiny of the Omniscient One?

Oppressive treatment of others and a haughty attitude are considered as "abomination" in Proverbs 3: 31 - 32, and a "froward heart" is again mentioned in Proverbs 11:20. I wonder if some of the attitudes of conservative Christians towards gay people might not fall into these categories of "abominations."

A list of six "abominations" are also given in Proverbs 6: 16 - 19:

These six things doth the LORD hate:
yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies,
and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Who can claim innocence from all these "abominations"? Are all the sure dispensers of judgments on gay people free from a "proud look" or "false witness"? (Who can be sure that words repeated are absolutely true?) Or sowing discord in God's congregation?

The simple term "wickedness" is equated with "abomination" in Proverbs 8:7. "Lying lips" are added to the list in Proverbs 12: 22 and a "proud heart" in Proverbs 16: 5. It seems then that pride and lies to further one's own agenda are every bit as hateful to a holy God as are sexual sins.

Who then can stand before Him?

Those that justify the wicked or condemn the just, as well as scorners are listed as "abominations" in Proverbs 17: 15 and Proverbs 24:9.

Prayer is added to the list of "abominations," if it comes from one who turns his ear from hearing the law in Proverbs 28:9. That becomes especially significant in view of the consideration that all of God's laws are summed up in the great principle of Love to God and to one's neighbors and that Christ Himself demonstrated that Law in His life. Are my prayers an "abomination"? Are yours?

I am forced to the conclusion that an "abomination" simply refers to something the Lord "hates" -- something totally out of harmony with His character of purity and love. If we take the biblical record as a whole, we find that pride and self-sufficiency are mentioned more often than any other qualities as being distasteful to God. And no wonder. Pride feels no need, and there's nothing even God can do for a self-sufficient sinner. That's why Jesus said that He came to save sinners and not the "righteous." Given that the Bible is clear that there is "none righteous," Christ's statement indicates as clearly as any other that a self-righteous spirit excludes its bearer from the kingdom of heaven.

Finally, not only did Christ clearly teach that a self-righteous spirit is a teflon-coated defense against saving grace, but He actually used the key word abomination in describing such a spirit. Luke gives this account in Luke 16: 15, 16 : "And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. And he said unto them, "Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God."

http://www.glow.cc/isa/abomination.htm
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Aug 4 2015 05:39pm
Quote (Valhalls_Sun @ Aug 4 2015 06:34pm)
NSRV
Leviticus 18:
19 You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 You shall not have sexual relations with your kinsman’s wife, and defile yourself with her. 21 You shall not give any of your offspring to sacrifice them[d] to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 23 You shall not have sexual relations with any animal and defile yourself with it, nor shall any woman give herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it: it is perversion.
Leviticus 19:
27 You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard. 28 You shall not make any gashes in your flesh for the dead or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the Lord.

33 When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. 34 The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
http://www.glow.cc/isa/abomination.htm


Feel free to create a new thread for your gay propaganda, I'm interested in real discussion here.
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Aug 4 2015 05:39pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ 4 Aug 2015 23:24)
Like i said no one knows for sure.

Yes i reject the claims of evolution that humans are a byproduct of chance+time. As i posted in another thread i simply do not believe that human consciousness is a result of amino acids randomly coming together one day and eventually evolving into the creature we call human today.

I humbly admit i don't know what happened, only God does. But the arrogance of many people thinking a theory explains undoubtedly the complexity of what has transpired is nothing short of foolishness.


We don't know exactly - mainly because the planet coalesced over a long period of time. We can say that it was within a 50 million year period... which when we're talking billions of years is actually really not that wide a margin of error.

But whatever... So just an evolution denier - not actually a YEC though you do reject the scientific consensus on the age of the earth - you just don't have an alternative answer. Fair do's. You can see how you might be mistaken for a YEC...

Quote (IceMage @ 4 Aug 2015 23:39)
Feel free to create a new thread for your gay propaganda, I'm interested in real discussion here.


First time for everything I guess...

This post was edited by Scaly on Aug 4 2015 06:01pm
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Aug 4 2015 07:12pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 4 2015 06:24pm)
Like i said no one knows for sure.

Yes i reject the claims of evolution that humans are a byproduct of chance+time. As i posted in another thread i simply do not believe that human consciousness is a result of amino acids randomly coming together one day and eventually evolving into the creature we call human today.

I humbly admit i don't know what happened, only God does. But the arrogance of many people thinking a theory explains undoubtedly the complexity of what has transpired is nothing short of foolishness.


It is fair to say I don't know. I don't know either myself being a Skeptic to just about any claim. But calling the other arrogant is pretty foolish because you don't believe the other's explanation when your own could be wrong too.

This post was edited by Unanswered on Aug 4 2015 07:17pm
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Aug 5 2015 01:37am
Quote (IceMage @ 4 Aug 2015 18:39)
Feel free to create a new thread for your gay propaganda, I'm interested in real discussion here.



I'm not just speaking on Gay agenda I'm speaking on how a segment of a religion a denomination will take scripture and twist it into their agenda, Like I demonstrated with the word abomination there are all sorts of sins listed as abominations, yet you have zeroed in on homosexuality because? You have some inner communication with God? Has the spirit of God divined to you a list from bad to worst?

No. Groups form an agenda and use passages from the bible to reach their means, they decide which sins to accept and which to reject. This is perversion of the spirit of the Bible. I am not pushing propaganda of any sort besides one of not judging your neighbor.

If saying that the overriding spirit for us in the Bible is that; with the knowledge of God's love for us and our salvation through Christ, we should be humble, forgiving, non-judgmental, and loving to one another.

If you think this is wrong then prove me wrong.
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Aug 5 2015 01:46am
Quote (ofthevoid @ 4 Aug 2015 18:02)
This is true and idiots like Valhalls are trying to misrepresent something like the modernization of the language to try and discredit legitimate doctrine that was unaltered. The versions he keeps referring to all have to do with translations, or updating certain words because their archaic use is no longer relevant.

Valhalls stop trying to speculate and contort things that are crystal clear with your nonsense.



You have me mixed up with Thesnipa though I agree with him 100% and we can go into the history of the writing of the king James version and the politics that were involved with it? or would you like to google it first? we could go back to the Geneva and explore why certain parts were left out there as well? Or the Apocrypha and why it was edited out?
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Aug 5 2015 06:43am
Quote (Valhalls_Sun @ Aug 5 2015 02:37am)
I'm not just speaking on Gay agenda I'm speaking on how a segment of a religion a denomination will take scripture and twist it into their agenda, Like I demonstrated with the word abomination there are all sorts of sins listed as abominations, yet you have zeroed in on homosexuality because? You have some inner communication with God? Has the spirit of God divined to you a list from bad to worst?

No. Groups form an agenda and use passages from the bible to reach their means, they decide which sins to accept and which to reject. This is perversion of the spirit of the Bible. I am not pushing propaganda of any sort besides one of not judging your neighbor.

If saying that the overriding spirit for us in the Bible is that; with the knowledge of God's love for us and our salvation through Christ, we should be humble, forgiving, non-judgmental, and loving to one another.

If you think this is wrong then prove me wrong.


There is no we. You are not a Christian, you constantly spread anti-Christian messages, and your gay Christian copy pasta is not worth going through. Anyone with an elementary level understanding of scripture sees through it. (the scripture with the word "alien" was the most lulzy)

Like I said, go make another thread for your gay propaganda and I may answer. Or, you could avoid every argument I make in this thread, and jump to another argument every time you see I have destroyed your last one.

This post was edited by IceMage on Aug 5 2015 06:45am
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Aug 5 2015 06:58am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 4 2015 06:24pm)
Like i said no one knows for sure.

Yes i reject the claims of evolution that humans are a byproduct of chance+time. As i posted in another thread i simply do not believe that human consciousness is a result of amino acids randomly coming together one day and eventually evolving into the creature we call human today.

I humbly admit i don't know what happened, only God does. But the arrogance of many people thinking a theory explains undoubtedly the complexity of what has transpired is nothing short of foolishness.


theories that were developed using the evidence that has been gathered through scientific research

you have no answers yourself

and they're the arrogant ones for having answers?
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