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Jul 5 2015 10:56am
Quote (Santara @ 5 Jul 2015 10:40)
Sure he would have. :rofl:



He was pretty derogatory toward Anita, though he may treat all women like that, heck he's a SCJOTUS he might treat everyone like slaves now. :lol:
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Jul 6 2015 10:38am
Lol such a garbage country.

Edit: nvm blocked link

This post was edited by thundercock on Jul 6 2015 10:38am
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Jul 6 2015 10:45am
Quote (Santara @ 4 Jul 2015 09:05)


All I have to say about that meme and Clarence Thomas is this. Let Clarence Thomas speak for himself, and I'll allow you to see why he is being criticized:

Quote
The corollary of that principle is that human dignity cannot be taken away by the government. Slaves did not lose their dignity (any more than they lost their humanity) because the government allowed them to be enslaved. Those held in internment camps did not lose their dignity because the government confined them. And those denied governmental benefits certainly do not lose their dignity because the government denies them those benefits. The government cannot bestow dignity, and it cannot take it away.
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Jul 6 2015 10:46am
Quote (ThatAlex @ Jul 6 2015 08:45am)
All I have to say about that meme and Clarence Thomas is this. Let Clarence Thomas speak for himself, and I'll allow you to see why he is being criticized:


Philosophical argument that says that dignity is innate to humans. People are just harping on the "slaves did not lose their dignity" clause.
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Jul 6 2015 10:50am
Quote (thundercock @ 6 Jul 2015 10:46)
Philosophical argument that says that dignity is innate to humans. People are just harping on the "slaves did not lose their dignity" clause.


As they should. What he is saying is absurd.
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Jul 6 2015 10:52am
Quote (ThatAlex @ Jul 6 2015 08:50am)
As they should. What he is saying is absurd.


Why? Do you disagree with the sources he cited? What is wrong with them?
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Jul 6 2015 10:58am
Quote (thundercock @ 6 Jul 2015 10:52)
Why? Do you disagree with the sources he cited? What is wrong with them?


The government can take away someone's dignity.

Can someone be theoretically have enough mental fortitude to not let being a slave or being in an interment camp phase them? Yes, that is certainly possible.

But a government enslaving some of its people can cause them to lose dignity and self-worth.

The notion that a government cannot take away dignity or bestow dignity in any circumstance is convenient argument for him to make in the context of same sex marriage.

To answer your question more directly, his rhetoric is too absolute to be true in every single case, and therefore it is false. Some slaves lost their dignity; some Japanese lost their dignity in interment camps. The government can bestow and take away dignity.
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Jul 6 2015 11:16am
Quote (ThatAlex @ Jul 6 2015 08:58am)
The government can take away someone's dignity.

Can someone be theoretically have enough mental fortitude to not let being a slave or being in an interment camp phase them? Yes, that is certainly possible.

But a government enslaving some of its people can cause them to lose dignity and self-worth.

The notion that a government cannot take away dignity or bestow dignity in any circumstance is convenient argument for him to make in the context of same sex marriage.

To answer your question more directly, his rhetoric is too absolute to be true in every single case, and therefore it is false. Some slaves lost their dignity; some Japanese lost their dignity in interment camps. The government can bestow and take away dignity.


Quote
Human dignity has long been understood in this country to be innate. When the Framers proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence that “all men are created equal” and “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,” they referred to a vision of mankind in which all humans are created in the image of God and therefore of inherent worth. That vision is the foundation upon which this Nation was built.


Thomas is clearly invoking the Catholic view of dignity given that he, himself, is a Catholic. In addition, there is a clear link between this view of "dignity" and what the Founders opinion on the matter was (likely a 17th-18th century view on the matter, Kant would be a good source on this I imagine). While I disagree with his conclusion (dignity doesn't really have relevance when it comes to this issue) I wouldn't say that Thomas' views are absurd. As far as I'm concerned, It's best to avoid almost all media when it comes to hot button cases. They don't understand the reasoning behind most cases nor do they care to. You should check out SCOTUSblog for analysis or the actual source.
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Jul 6 2015 11:18am
Quote (thundercock @ 6 Jul 2015 11:16)
Thomas is clearly invoking the Catholic view of dignity given that he, himself, is a Catholic. In addition, there is a clear link between this view of "dignity" and what the Founders opinion on the matter was (likely a 17th-18th century view on the matter, Kant would be a good source on this I imagine). While I disagree with his conclusion (dignity doesn't really have relevance when it comes to this issue) I wouldn't say that Thomas' views are absurd. As far as I'm concerned, It's best to avoid almost all media when it comes to hot button cases. They don't understand the reasoning behind most cases nor do they care to. You should check out SCOTUSblog for analysis or the actual source.


Well, maybe it makes more sense in a divine context. Context is always important.

I just think it's absurd to say that slavery didn't cause slaves to lose even an ounce of self-worth or dignity, because it did. And the government (for a time) endorsed slavery.
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Jul 6 2015 12:53pm
Quote (ThatAlex @ Jul 6 2015 11:50am)
As they should. What he is saying is absurd.


I'm sorry if this is news to you, but prior to the 13th amendment, slavery was constitutional.
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