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Aug 6 2018 04:33pm
Quote (IceMage @ Aug 6 2018 03:06pm)
col·lude
kəˈlo͞od
verb
come to a secret understanding for a harmful purpose; conspire

Steele gave the information to the FBI, and also multiple news agencies, so technically he wasn't even colluding because it wasn't secretive. Lol. He was sounding the alarm while Don Jr. was meeting with Russians to secretly get dirt on Clinton.




Trump was accusing Clinton publicly during the campaign. Nothing secret about it. And all the accusation by Hillary and the DNC etc., were about behavior of Trump during the campaign.
We knew about Trump's accusations, but the Dems was secret.

Not to mention that "paying" a retired MI6 agent, to "fabricate" a document is not the same as our intelligence and their intelligence ... "working together".

Is there a special tool you use to twist the truth like you do? :D
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Aug 6 2018 04:37pm
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Aug 6 2018 04:52pm)
West Hollywood City Council to vote on removing Trump's Walk of Fame star
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/400597-west-hollywood-city-council-to-vote-about-removing-trumps-walk

I dont understand, it's unfair, theres alot of assholes who should have their star removed too, hmm like... Bill Cosby ?

On that petty shit
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Aug 6 2018 05:16pm
Quote (ThatAlex @ 6 Aug 2018 21:49)
To my best understanding, this is essentially the argument:

Hillary Clinton and the DNC colluded with Russians through a series intermediaries: The DNC paid US attorney Mike Elias of Perkins Coie to hire Fusion GPS (headed by Glenn Simpson) for opposition research into Trump, which was gathered by Christopher Steele (former British MI6 agent who compiled the infamous 'dossier'), who was paying Russian sources for information about Trump. The net result being Clinton/DNC paying Russian sources for dirt on Trump.

Essentially: Clinton/DNC ---> Elias/Perkins Coie ---> Simpson/Fusion GPS ---> Steele ---> Russian sources

I honestly don't know too much about the Clinton Russian collusion accusation, so someone correct me if I'm wrong on the above.


Seems retarded.

That's like saying I'm supporting sex trafficking by eating a snickers bar. Seven degrees of separation yo.

This post was edited by Scaly on Aug 6 2018 05:17pm
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Aug 6 2018 05:16pm
Quote (IgoSoHard @ Aug 6 2018 05:37pm)
On that petty shit


Yeah... so weird when people act petty, especially elected officials.
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Aug 6 2018 05:33pm
Quote (ThatAlex @ Aug 6 2018 04:49pm)
To my best understanding, this is essentially the argument:

Hillary Clinton and the DNC colluded with Russians through a series intermediaries: The DNC paid US attorney Mike Elias of Perkins Coie to hire Fusion GPS (headed by Glenn Simpson) for opposition research into Trump, which was gathered by Christopher Steele (former British MI6 agent who compiled the infamous 'dossier'), who was paying Russian sources for information about Trump. The net result being Clinton/DNC paying Russian sources for dirt on Trump.

Essentially: Clinton/DNC ---> Elias/Perkins Coie ---> Simpson/Fusion GPS ---> Steele ---> Russian sources

I honestly don't know too much about the Clinton Russian collusion accusation, so someone correct me if I'm wrong on the above.


You have the facts right, besides IMO the claim that Hillary's campaign colluded with Russians. It's not an honest characterization of what happened. It's also silly to pretend "Russians who are working on behalf of the Kremlin to attack our election" and "Russians who are giving information that will hurt Russian interests" belong in the same category.

Fusion GPS did it's own work too. They specialize in basically following the paper trail in countries like Russia, although they don't have many human sources, so they asked Steele to dig around.

I feel like people treat Steele as if he's some random private investigator off the street. The guy headed the Russia desk at MI6 until 2009. MI6, besides maybe the CIA, is considered to have the best intelligence operation in Russia. That(combined with corroborating information) is why the FBI took this so seriously when they found out.

This post was edited by IceMage on Aug 6 2018 05:42pm
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Aug 6 2018 05:50pm
Quote (IceMage @ Aug 6 2018 05:33pm)
You have the facts right, besides IMO the claim that Hillary's campaign colluded with Russians. It's not an honest characterization of what happened.

Fusion GPS did it's own work too. They specialize in basically following the paper trail in countries like Russia, although they don't have many human sources, so they asked Steele to dig around.

I feel like people treat Steele as if he's some random private investigator off the street. The guy headed the Russia desk at MI6 until 2009. MI6, besides maybe the CIA, is considered to have the best intelligence operation in Russia. That(combined with corroborating information) is why the FBI took this so seriously when they found out.


And the Clinton campaign gets to what, reap all the benefits of collusion and hide behind plausible deniability and pretending they 'didn't know'? Thats the kind of unaccountability reserved for mob bosses and CEOs of pyramid schemes.
The facts is, the Clinton campaign made secret payments to Perkins Coie designed to intentionally obfuscate the money trail to their dirty oppo operation, listing these campaign payments as 'legal services' so there would be no report to the FEC. Why would they do that unless they wanted to keep their hands off such operations? Seems to me like standard operating procedure for the kinds of political machinations Clinton was known for, she's come a long way since '9987% profits on cattle futures'.

Nobody is ever going to be able to prove how much she knew or when, because like the accounting at the Clinton Foundation, its intentionally opaque. But I don't think it really matters. We have clear evidence of a money trail from the Clinton campaign / DNC / OFA -> Kremlin agents for the explicit purpose of soliciting opposition research on Trump to influence the election.

Collusion isnt a crime. Conspiring with the Russian government to sway an election is not 'definitely illegal'. It is however a big scandal. If we looked at it purely from a legal lens, there's just no accountability for the Steele connection, because its not illegal. But from a political scandal lens, it is far more damning than the connections of 'Trump Tower' or whatever they're on about. And when it comes to scandals, plausible deniability is no excuse, Hillary being able to distance herself for a legal quibble is not the same as being unaccountable for whatever moral/ethical transgression. Its clear enough that the money was sent down the chain, that the intel was passed all the way back up it to her campaign, and they knew to keep the money trail secret even if it meant violating the FEC's disclosure laws. That should be enough in and of itself.
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Aug 6 2018 07:35pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 6 Aug 2018 23:50)
And the Clinton campaign gets to what, reap all the benefits of collusion and hide behind plausible deniability and pretending they 'didn't know'? Thats the kind of unaccountability reserved for mob bosses and CEOs of pyramid schemes.
The facts is, the Clinton campaign made secret payments to Perkins Coie designed to intentionally obfuscate the money trail to their dirty oppo operation, listing these campaign payments as 'legal services' so there would be no report to the FEC. Why would they do that unless they wanted to keep their hands off such operations? Seems to me like standard operating procedure for the kinds of political machinations Clinton was known for, she's come a long way since '9987% profits on cattle futures'.

Nobody is ever going to be able to prove how much she knew or when, because like the accounting at the Clinton Foundation, its intentionally opaque. But I don't think it really matters. We have clear evidence of a money trail from the Clinton campaign / DNC / OFA -> Kremlin agents for the explicit purpose of soliciting opposition research on Trump to influence the election.

Collusion isnt a crime. Conspiring with the Russian government to sway an election is not 'definitely illegal'. It is however a big scandal. If we looked at it purely from a legal lens, there's just no accountability for the Steele connection, because its not illegal. But from a political scandal lens, it is far more damning than the connections of 'Trump Tower' or whatever they're on about. And when it comes to scandals, plausible deniability is no excuse, Hillary being able to distance herself for a legal quibble is not the same as being unaccountable for whatever moral/ethical transgression. Its clear enough that the money was sent down the chain, that the intel was passed all the way back up it to her campaign, and they knew to keep the money trail secret even if it meant violating the FEC's disclosure laws. That should be enough in and of itself.


shill
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Aug 6 2018 08:22pm
i see no downside to this?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/healthcare/hospitals-to-post-prices-online-under-new-trump-administration-rule
Quote
Hospitals will be required to post the prices they charge for surgeries and other medical procedures online under a new Trump administration rule.

The rule, finalized Thursday by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, is part of the Trump administration's goal toward "value-based care," which aims to reduce the costs of healthcare while improving outcomes. Officials hope to be able to drive down costs by showing patients more information about what different medical procedures will cost, and at times encourage them to shop around.

Previously, CMS required that hospitals make the information available to anyone who asks for it. Under the new rule, hospitals will need to update the prices every year beginning Jan. 1, 2019.

"The agency is considering future actions based on the public feedback it received on ways hospitals can display price information that would be most useful to stakeholders and how to create patient-friendly interfaces that allow consumers to more easily access relevant healthcare data and compare providers," CMS said in a statement.

The posted prices are different than what most patients and health insurance companies pay for care, because each insurer or government payer such as Medicare negotiates payments.
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Aug 6 2018 08:29pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 6 2018 12:11pm)
If I got a grant from the University of Minnesota to study social media datamining, does that make me a US government agent?


Russia =/= U.S.

the lines are blurred over there between private citizens and government assets...
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Aug 6 2018 11:19pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Aug 6 2018 08:22pm)


I'm very okay with this.

Doesn't matter to emergency care though. Not gonna go five minutes away to save 10k if I'm having a heart attack.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Aug 6 2018 11:20pm
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