meanwhile in reality germany is far worse than anything you talk about here

the only reason hungary and poland are targeted is that they refuse mass migration

otherwise the EU would talk about government bimbos with shady background and without proper qualification control our supreme court



you wont get any independent polls in german media, these guys are like 90%+ green party, socialist supporters and reject the pipeline despite their own stupidity making it necessary

with energy prices exploding right now you will surely find massive support for the pipeline

before that you would probably have found somewhat equally divided opinions

i mean in the end the regular person just wants to live well enough, zero fucks given about who delivers the gas for the warm house in the winter

btw, our coal consumption has increased a lot recently and even more after 3 perfectly operational nuclear power plants were shut down for no reason whatsoever at the end if 2021

absolute genius

In the midst of this war on freedom and war on truth being conducted by the elites at this time in their desperate and increasingly frantic & weak attempts to remain relevant on the world stage,

Remember this my brothers.

The truth will win in the end.

They will not achieve their goals.

great speech comrade

I don't think it's an issue that is riling people up, but opinions obviously diverge. It is mostly the Green party and the transatlantic figures who outright oppose this pipeline, but those are vastly overrepresented and have disproportionate sway in German MSM.

Personally, I'm in favor of Nord Stream 2, but we must of course remain vigilant and not be naive about it. Too much dependence on Russian gas should be avoided. But that's an issue which hinges on our larger energy strategy (nuclear vs gas/coal, expanding renewables etc.) rather than on one single pipeline. The main purpose of Nord Stream 2 is not to increase the share of Russian gas in our energy mix, it's to prevent Ukraine or any other Eastern European states from holding a gatekeeper role and all the leverage that comes with it. Thanks to Nord Stream 2, they would no longer be able to blackmail either side or siphon off gas.

Likewise, the main reason why the US is so opposed to Nord Stream 2 is two-fold: they want to sell us their shitty LNG as a replacement for the much cheaper and more eco-friendly Russian gas, and they want this aforementioned leverage to persist so that Germany can be dragged into conflicts in Eastern Europe caused by their regime change attempts and foreign policy adventures.





This newspaper that I cited is the German equivalent of the nytimes or the WaPo, if you know what I mean. Strong liberal bias on cultural and economic issues, strong establishment bias on foreign policy.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Feb 17 2022 02:01am

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-pro-russia-separatists-trade-allegations-of-cease-fire-violations-11645091832?mod=hp_lead_pos1

Escalation along the demarcation line, with both Ukrainian and separatist forces alleging the other began the shelling.

Neither side (Russia v NATO) has budged in terms of recent talks, so I expect we'll see more flare-ups in an attempt to drive diplomacy. At the bare minimum, Russia is going to look for autonomy in the eastern regions. Russian parliament have called on Putin to recognize the breakaway regions as independent, and I'm sure Putin will try to wield this as a bargaining chip.

This post was edited by bogie160 on Feb 17 2022 07:31am

I don't think we can trust american media regarding all this.

FTFY

I agree, but the article I posted is relatively tame. Both sides are accusing the other of escalation, and Putin's goal here from the get go has been to keep Ukraine within Russia's wider orbit, and prevent it from breaking decisively towards the West.

The separatist territories are key to that. I would think that recognizing them as independent is a last resort, and that Russia would prefer for them to have veto over Ukrainian foreign policy via the Minsk agreement. We need to be cautious of Ukrainian motives as well, because a situation where Russian-aligned separatists have veto over their country's future is obviously untenable, and all the more reason for them to try and reassert direct control over the East.

I dont think we need to be that cautious: this president already seek massive alliance with very-nationalist ukrainian groups, and the true problematic core who was speaking russian is already gone...
Maybe we should take care these nationalists to take over (coup) Ukraine btw. Yes that can an issue.

Biden trying to say he won a potential fight against Russia