i believe in a deep state....how would u not know the jews are controlling us

What's amazing to me is that the deep state had the foresight to know in 2014 that Carter Page would eventually be on the Trump campaign, and thus tried to paint him then as cooperating with Russian intelligence. They really do play 4d chess.

I'm not reading 412 pages, so I'll wait for some real analysis.

Former FBI special agent doing some analysis here:
https://twitter.com/AshaRangappa_

Not sure there's anything new here.



The FISA application was put in after Carter Page was no longer on the Trump team...

This post was edited by IceMage on Jul 21 2018 06:52pm

There's no deep-state. John McCain is a rational political actor. I'm not questioning whether McCain should have given the FBI his copy of the Dossier. By all accounts, it was the right thing to do.

I'm questioning the source of the Dossier, which was political in nature and opposition research funded by first Conservatives and then Democrats.

That's not to say whether the content of the Dossier is correct or not, just that it's a political document in nature. Some parts of it have proven to be true, others false, most still unknown.

The FBI listed the Steele Dossier as Source #1 for the wiretap of Carter Page. Given how easy FISA warrants are to obtain, that's not to say they wouldn't have gotten one on Page, anyway. I'm just pointing out the Dossier was their #1 source.

I think it's also worth noting that despite the FBI finding probable cause on 4 separate occasions to monitor Page, he has yet to be charged with any crime. It reeks of politics.

Anyway, comparing the FISA document to the old republican and democratic memos, its clear that both memos were factually accurate, and while both were clearly selectively choosing details to represent to support their narratives, the republican memo was reasonably accurate whereas the democratic memo was full of spin factor 11/10, bullshitus supremus. The central, really the only nonredacted evidence against Carter Page is the Steele Dossier. And it was indeed incorrectly (benefit of the doubt: mistakenly) presented as if Isikoff was providing confirmation that didn't stem from Steele, when Isikoffs source in actuality was Steele. And there's no way without Steele's allegations that the FISA warrant request would have any substance. Maybe they could get it rubber stamped on pure bullshit anyway, but the Steele dossier was their central premise. And another fine point in the dueling memos was that the warrant does indeed lay out that the FBI authorized payments to Steele to recompense him for the Dossier, meaning the FBI was going to pay him for it. But the democrats split hairs by playing up the fact that this payment was later canceled- when it was discovered that Steele was soliciting the media with the dossier. That was never a point of credibility in Steeles favor, and it doesn't change the DoJ's intent to pay for the Dossier.

so nothing we didn't already know, but Adam Schiff is even more full of shit than Nunes and that is saying something

Here's a great visual representation of the Nunes memo:



The crux of the debate is the "evidence" box. The FBI says they had a variety of sources that led to them getting a FISA warrant to monitor Carter Page. Conservatives contest that the Steele Dossier was the primary center piece to obtaining the warrant.

Who are we to trust? Personally, it's hard for me to trust either. Nunes and co obviously have some incentive to protect Trump. The FBI has had a series of political fallout and insubordinate activity over the past few years.

My two big takeaways are this. One, getting a FISA warrant is way too damn easy. Two, the FBI deserves heavy scrutiny with how they've handled this. Their operation looks like a giant mess.

Its hard to read more than a few pages of this FISA warrant and come to any other conclusion than that the Steele Dossier was their critical piece of 'evidence' used to establish probable cause.
If anything else juicy was blacked out, we'd both have found out about it by now (leaks) and it wouldn't have been listed so far down and after the Steele Dossier

the real question is whether all the supposed supporting extra evidence was derived from Steele or if they had anything substantial besides the dossier at all.
and maybe there's something tucked into those 400 pages I haven't noticed, because I ain't reading that shit

That's how they get away with w/e they want. THEY have oodles of folks to pore over those huge documents. They can then sleep at night, knowing that no one who isn't getting paid to do it, will read those documents.

I agree with you. The FBI can say they had a bunch of other sources, but it really appears that the Steel Dossier was at the center of it all.

However, it might be a moot point. Researching the FISA warrant process, it looks like they are extremely easy to obtain. Even without the Steele Dossier, the FBI very likely (99.7% based on history) could have monitored Page.

Which leads me to my next question: Shouldn't more Americans should be pissed that we essentially have a secret, non-adversarial court that can monitor American citizens without probable cause?

Hence all of the deep state "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"-ing from the trump cult

people, caring about government surveillance infringing on their right to privacy? lel
remind me, all the people who pretended to be upset when Snowden & Assange revealed various NSA/CIA/FBI mass surveillance, hacking tools & all the other fun toys the government use to strip away our civil liberties...
what do those folk have to say today when it sounds like Assange is finally getting black bagged?