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Aug 5 2018 03:45pm
Quote (dro94 @ 5 Aug 2018 17:00)
You can't attribute all of it to a single administration or party and no one said you could, but that doesn't mean certain administrations haven't contributed to the deficit and debt proportionally more, or whether the economic conditions at the time which influenced it are insignificant.

While there were undoubtedly structural issues in the financial system dating back 30+ years that we can't assign blame to easily, to then say that everyone contributed and thus implying that we can't hold administrations to account for it is intellectually lazy.


But all we, they, everyone seems to do is point blame. No real solutions are ever pursued, but we continue to play along with the game, when it needs a fundamental change.

We can hold administrations accountable for their actions, but it's also important to figure out exactly where and how things have gone wrong so that corrective action can be taken. I don't see how that is intellectually lazy; if anything, the opposing view point is intellectually lazy, or at least flawed (just as my view point is inherently flawed, because I have no easily implementable solution)

Casting blame, intellectually lazy. This administration fucked up here, we need the other party in office for x,y,z. Why? We continue to vote and contribute to this flawed system that pushes the status quo. Which leads us to Trump, where I believe he saw this opening, and lead with, albeit lies or at least empty promises, jobs, draining the swamp, etc.

Decrease govt spending
Audit govt programs
Lower the defense budget
Shrink overall govt

I've heard arguments for it, and I'm on the fence, but I also think removing the minimum wage may help stimulate the job market, and I think education is at a critical point here. We are dancing on the edge of a student loan bubble already as it is, and we are losing trade/skilled labor force.

Not to derail what was being said, but I think the discussion naturally doubles back to a lot of these things.
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Aug 5 2018 04:03pm
Quote (VinnieG @ Aug 5 2018 10:45pm)
But all we, they, everyone seems to do is point blame. No real solutions are ever pursued, but we continue to play along with the game, when it needs a fundamental change.

We can hold administrations accountable for their actions, but it's also important to figure out exactly where and how things have gone wrong so that corrective action can be taken. I don't see how that is intellectually lazy; if anything, the opposing view point is intellectually lazy, or at least flawed (just as my view point is inherently flawed, because I have no easily implementable solution)

Casting blame, intellectually lazy. This administration fucked up here, we need the other party in office for x,y,z. Why? We continue to vote and contribute to this flawed system that pushes the status quo. Which leads us to Trump, where I believe he saw this opening, and lead with, albeit lies or at least empty promises, jobs, draining the swamp, etc.

Decrease govt spending
Audit govt programs
Lower the defense budget
Shrink overall govt

I've heard arguments for it, and I'm on the fence, but I also think removing the minimum wage may help stimulate the job market, and I think education is at a critical point here. We are dancing on the edge of a student loan bubble already as it is, and we are losing trade/skilled labor force.

Not to derail what was being said, but I think the discussion naturally doubles back to a lot of these things.


It's important to cast blame because it highlights the bad policies to avoid continuing in the future, rather than for scoring points over republicans.
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Aug 5 2018 04:39pm






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Aug 5 2018 04:58pm
Found a picture of Ghot.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1026150926271143936
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Aug 5 2018 05:06pm
Quote (dro94 @ 5 Aug 2018 18:03)
It's important to cast blame because it highlights the bad policies to avoid continuing in the future, rather than for scoring points over republicans.


But bad policies/political action persist through changes of parties/administrations.. no real change is had. I agree blame is important, but for the large majority of people, the discussion ends there. People can't get past the blame, through to the actual issues that need some form of reformation. Everyone can stand back and criticize things after the hand is played out, or at least some cards are shown (again, not saying I don't do this myself) but our political system is in turmoil to say the least and it appears nothing is really being done to fix it. We get much of the same nonsense going on, govt pockets are protected, maybe a scapegoat is sacrificed for the rest of the political herd, and everyone carries on.
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Aug 5 2018 05:09pm
Quote (VinnieG @ Aug 5 2018 05:06pm)
But bad policies/political action persist through changes of parties/administrations.. no real change is had. I agree blame is important, but for the large majority of people, the discussion ends there. People can't get past the blame, through to the actual issues that need some form of reformation. Everyone can stand back and criticize things after the hand is played out, or at least some cards are shown (again, not saying I don't do this myself) but our political system is in turmoil to say the least and it appears nothing is really being done to fix it. We get much of the same nonsense going on, govt pockets are protected, maybe a scapegoat is sacrificed for the rest of the political herd, and everyone carries on.


An unfortunate consequence of polarization in the media, which is itself a consequence of unchecked merging of media companies to form giant media empires.

I mean, it sucks, but at least we got the Marvel movies, so it's not all bad.
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Aug 5 2018 05:12pm
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Aug 5 2018 05:13pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 5 Aug 2018 22:45)
In the long run, interest payments for a huge debt will eat into the budget and restrict the government more and more. We've seen this with countries like Greece and Argentina, but also Italy and Spain.
The United States are huuuuge and I believe they will be able to go to a debt north of $30trillion before this becomes an issue, but at some point, things start going downhill very quickly.

Inflation can melt down a mountain of public debt, yes, but at the expense of the people. It is their loss in pensions, bank accounts and overall purchasing power that pays off the debt in case of heavy inflation.

True, but again: bringing the deficit down to $450bn per year during a thriving economy like Obama did is not NEARLY enough.


Also true. Therefore, the best way to reduce the debt burden is strong and sustained growth coupled with responsible public spending. The big question, however, is whether such a "strong yet not deficit-driven" growth is even attainable anymore in this day and age in a highly developed country.


nowadays there are plenty of ways to mess around with debt, i mean just look at japan

its kind of a funny situation that we have in the united states, as well as in europe
interest rates should go up by all objective criteria, but the central banks know that the state budget couldnt handle it

savings, pensions, purchasing power already get eaten by that policy, slowly, but its happening
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Aug 5 2018 05:52pm
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Aug 5 2018 06:00pm
Quote (IceMage @ 6 Aug 2018 00:52)


Top notch funny guys. They are still toys anyway.
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