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Jul 31 2018 12:07am
So Ghot realized he can't defend anything he is claiming and pivoted to some vaguely defined "open borders" criticism that nobody advocates and we don't have.
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Jul 31 2018 12:08am
Quote (Plaguefear @ Jul 31 2018 01:59am)
Personally i advocate a skill immigration system where we take in only people who are trained in a skillset we have in short supply, they can have citizenship but in return they make put in at least 4 years of paid training helping to get local citizens to upskill.
We put the emphasis on training our own and still bring in people who can contribute well and who are intelligent enough to adapt to a new culture fluidly, competent english would also be a must.
I am ok with taking in a modest number of refugees provided they are well cared for and educated rather than just dumped in a slum and left to fend for themselves.




I think we have already gone past the point of no return. Which is why I think we need to deport ALL the illegals, then run for 20 years or so, to get a new baseline to work with.

Problem is...it's not just a few crazies that are against this. Two of the most populous states are fighting the Fed tooth and nail to be allowed to throw the borders wide open.
Half of congress is fighting to toss out immigration laws. I keep thinking that all these folk must have flunked all BUT their check book math.

I'm sad for Europe's immigration practices. I'm sad that the 3rd world countries can't come up with some other pastime besides breeding. Like I've said before, I'm kind of glad I'm old. I foresee this world going through some seriously bad shyt, before it gets better, if ever. I don't see any 1st world countries surviving intact, except maybe China... possibly Russia. China because they've already run the numbers, and Russia because atm their country is pretty much uninhabited.







/e

Quote (Sakuraba @ Jul 31 2018 02:05am)
what about it? it's irrelevant as to what's being discussed, you literally said:
This is false when you adjust for inflation.
now here you're trying to claim what you meant was a literal minimum wage of $15 in the 70s would have been insanely high pay? How is this relevant at all to $15 today? You make no fucking sense. You just say stupid things and backpedal, trying to explain how it's everyone else misinterpreting what your true meanings to a simple sentence were.
The federal minimum wage was $2.10 in 1975, adjust for inflation that's about $12.42 today. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 in 2018. People in the 70s were making more as skilled laborers and minimum wage with a cheaper cost of living all around when adjusted.


Seriously bro, have some coffee. ^^

This post was edited by Ghot on Jul 31 2018 12:11am
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Jul 31 2018 12:19am
godspeed the fellows trying to argue with this delusional boomer
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Jul 31 2018 12:21am
Quote (Jupe @ Jul 31 2018 02:19am)
godspeed the fellows trying to argue with this delusional boomer




Quoth the 25 year old. I bet you're a fan of that dingbat Ocasio-Cortez. :/
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Jul 31 2018 01:23am
Quote (Ghot @ Jul 31 2018 05:08pm)

I'm sad for Europe's immigration practices. I'm sad that the 3rd world countries can't come up with some other pastime besides breeding. Like I've said before, I'm kind of glad I'm old. I foresee this world going through some seriously bad shyt, before it gets better, if ever. I don't see any 1st world countries surviving intact, except maybe China... possibly Russia. China because they've already run the numbers, and Russia because atm their country is pretty much uninhabited.



Australia will be fine..
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Jul 31 2018 03:15am
Quote (Plaguefear @ Jul 31 2018 03:23am)
Australia will be fine..




...as will Hungary I hear. :D
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Jul 31 2018 03:16am
Quote (Ghot @ 31 Jul 2018 10:15)
...as will Hungary I hear. :D


hearing =/= understanding
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Jul 31 2018 03:28am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Jul 31 2018 05:16am)
hearing =/= understanding




I understand both the US and Hungary have both said fuck off to the UN's new immigrant plan.
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Jul 31 2018 07:28am
You guys think too much. The current political climate is one where right wing whites has totally lost trust in the system and feels disenfranchised. These are feelings and emotives. They will not be changed with a debate or by presenting facts and opinions but by concrete action and results. In particular, the right needs to actually see the left take the stand that the concerns of right wing whites are legitimate and never dismiss them as white nationalism. If that doesnt occur, we go to civil unrest and war.

This post was edited by Kuggergug on Jul 31 2018 07:28am
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Jul 31 2018 10:03am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ 31 Jul 2018 07:42)
2 studies:

David Card's results indicate that the migration shock had no effect on Miami's salary and average employment rate. Those of Jennifer Hunt show that on average the repatriation of the 900,000* French from Algeria had a negative effect, although limited, on the employment and the wages of the metropolitans*. The main conclusion of these studies is that immigration has virtually no effect on the average wage and employment of workers. More recent studies (theoretically based and neutralizing the problems related to immigrants' location choices), conducted in the United States, Great Britain, Germany and France, confirm this. Some of them even show that immigration sometimes has slightly positive effects on the average salary of the natives: the newcomers would rather degrade the conditions of employment of the previous waves of immigration and would allow the natives to reorient themselves towards jobs more remunerative.

*0-1% and 900.000 was gigantic amount (0.9/50)

http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/card-peri-jel-april-6-2016.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/4902369_The_Impact_of_Immigrants_on_Host_Country_Wages_Employment_and_Growth

Look like you have some kind of agenda.

this study by Card is an old and outdated study whose conclusions have been cast into doubt by more recent studies:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article162683083.html

lets go through the key parts:

------

Quote
The tumultuous Mariel refugee influx of 1980 is back in the news — this time at the core of a roiling debate about whether immigrants hurt less-educated native-born workers.
The heated arguments focus on the new work of a Cuban-born Harvard professor, George Borjas, who concludes that Mariel caused a drastic drop in pay among native-born Miami high school dropouts


note: borjas is a cuban immigrant himself, so he most likely does not hold racist resentment against latinos or immigrants in general.

Quote
His work has sparked an uproar among fellow economists and many policymakers because, for years, the academic world has believed that the sudden arrival of 125,000 Cubans via the boatlift had no effect on the wages of those already living in Miami — the conclusion of a widely respected 1990 research paper by David Card, then a Princeton professor.

Card’s study has long been cited worldwide by policymakers and the media as a major reason why people shouldn’t be afraid of immigrants — including Mexicans entering the United States and Syrians arriving in Europe.



Quote
...too often waves of immigration are blurred by many factors, including uncertain time frames and new arrivals often flocking to places where the most jobs are available, meaning their effects on native-born Americans are minimized.

With Mariel, time and location were limited. In April 1980, Fidel Castro announced that virtually anyone could leave through the port of Mariel. Boats rushed to Cuba from Key West to pick up friends and relatives. In the first six weeks, according to the Coast Guard, about 100,000 Cubans made the trip — most of them going to Miami, where the workforce suddenly swelled by about 60,000. About 60 percent of the new arrivals had less than a high school education. [...]

Borjas re-visited the boatlift, focusing on those native-born Americans most likely to face competition from the new arrivals — male non-Hispanic high school dropouts aged 25-59. More than half of that group in Miami were black. The wages for this group, he found, “dropped dramatically, by 10 to 30 percent.”


the article is published by the slightly left-leaning miami herald, so it focuses quite a lot on possible criticism of Borja's study.

near the end of the article, there's this interesting section:

Quote
[referring to the contradictory study results of Card and Borjas:] Who’s right? Last year, the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine issued a 642-page report on immigration. It acknowledged Borjas’ main point — that native groups with similar skills to new immigrants “may experience a wage reduction,” particularly those with “low-education, low-skills.”


This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 31 2018 10:03am
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