Quote (bogie160 @ Nov 13 2018 07:13pm)

No, but stationing costs would go down.

Depends on Poland, though, I suspect that a "European" army will actually mean a French-German army, but I think it's moot, there's no way the Europeans will spend the 4% of GDP required to have a real armed force.

Quote (Knoppie @ Nov 13 2018 01:14pm)

We already have a force stronger than Russia, and economically speaking, it's not even a contest. We can get it back to pre crisis 2% gdp to increase the margin again.

/e: meaning that you can pull out of Europe, whenever you want.

Quote (bogie160 @ Nov 13 2018 07:23pm)

Can Germany and France defend Poland, Estonia, Latvia?

I doubt it, nor do I think they have the political will to do it.

France's resources were strained aiding the Americans in Libya a few years back. It would take years and sustained funding to reverse the decay.

Quote (Knoppie @ Nov 13 2018 01:25pm)

Part of the EU, those are OUR borders. So yes, even better with a united army as new plans are leading to.

Response time towards possible aggression in these countries are actually the main reason to centralize command.

Quote (bogie160 @ Nov 13 2018 07:30pm)

We'll see if, when push comes to shove, German and French lives are worth defending Estonians.

The Poles look like they want American help, though, probably to do with the EU interfering in their domestic affairs.

Quote (Knoppie @ 13 Nov 2018 17:51)

Making you want to surrender your manufacturing of arms and supplies to the US.

backward logic is what you guys call that right?

Buy French made arms men. :D

Quote (ampoo @ 13 Nov 2018 17:44)

no, there are problems with NATO, but its a completely different situation
the control of whats happening with our army remains here and the armies of the NATO nations work together in logistics, strategy and in the field

however we always have the option to decide the join or not to join operations of the united states to stick with the country you speak of (and we have done so in the past)
if we give military power to the EU this option and our control will be gone and they are welcome to do the exact some stuff you accuse the US of (and you are right to do so) in the world with our soldiers

by the way, most european countries not paying their fair share for NATO is a fact, that has been addressed by former presidents before trump
we are not investing the funds we promised and especially the german army cant provide the material and personnel that we promised as well
in the case of a military emergency we are literally fucked and unable to do anything without the americans, the result of decades of neglect and underfunding of your armed forces

i know that you are unable to admit that trump is right on this, but as a matter of fact we should appreciate him bringing the discussion back into the public

there is a big difference between us being part of an alliance or us surrendering power and sovereignty to brussels

Quote (dro94 @ Nov 13 2018 08:37pm)

UK and EU agree text of draft withdrawal agreement. Big news and solid progress, but MP's are already speculating on what's in it and the consensus is that it's not a good deal. I'll wait to see the full details before commenting further.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46188790

On a separate point, a European army is a stupid idea. You can have defensive pacts with other countries and not share an army under the same flag. Europe isn't a country, despite Macron and Merkel's desire for it to be.