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#20111
Jun 14 2018 05:03pm
Quote (HeLiCaL @ Jun 14 2018 05:49pm)
idiot alt-left nazis keep exposing themselves

https://www.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/140618wolf.jpg



lmao sad state of affairs we are engaged in
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#20112
Jun 14 2018 06:43pm
President Trump has approved tariffs on $50 billion of Chinese products, a source says. The move is a dramatic escalation of global tensions on trade.
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#20113
Jun 14 2018 06:45pm
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/gop-daca-draft/index.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/06/14/gop-immigration-text-releasted/703064002/
latest immigration "compromise"

the democrats get:
  • +++ permanent status for 1.8 million DACA enrollees with one-time limit slots
  • ++++ amnesty (pathway to citizenship) for DACA enrollees
  • ++++ amnesty (pathway to citizenship) for other illegal aliens
  • ++++ green card application for parents of DACA enrollees (ie DAPA)
  • ++ rule against child separation at the border


the republicans gets:
  • + end of the diversity via lottery
  • ++ $25 billion for wall funding
  • + removes 3 week limit on detaining families with children when kept together
  • + lengthens detention of illegal aliens facing trial
  • + allows citizens to sue cities for crimes committed by illegal aliens they failed to detain
  • + removes "married children of United States citizens and siblings of adult citizens." from family-based visas


Looks to me like an absurdly one-sided bargain. IE, its halfway between the republicans who support DACA and the democrats who support DACA, and far removed from the republicans who oppose DACA.
I mean, its being presented as 'too hard-line' by sites like the NYT, but this is giveway to democrats as written, and I say that as someone who would rather see a DACA solution.

The fact is, the two big sticking points for the two sides are Amnesty and Merit-based Immigration. If a bill only presents one of these and not the other, it can't truly be a compromise. This bill's only concession to merit-based immigration is to add it as a special scrutiny for amnesty applications (lol) and to remove a couple categories of family visas. It does not overhaul US immigration to be merit-based like Trump and his supporters want. Everything else- the wall, schumer visas, suing cities- these are peanuts. The kinds of sweeteners you add to a deal to help politicians sell it to their constituents, not the meat of the package that is being haggled.

If President Trump lends his support to this bill, it will show he's actually much further to the left than his supporters
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#20114
Jun 14 2018 06:47pm
how many years does pathway to citizen last?

This post was edited by HeLiCaL on Jun 14 2018 06:47pm
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#20115
Jun 14 2018 06:57pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 14 Jun 2018 20:45)
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/gop-daca-draft/index.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/06/14/gop-immigration-text-releasted/703064002/
latest immigration "compromise"

the democrats get:
  • +++ permanent status for 1.8 million DACA enrollees with one-time limit slots
  • ++++ amnesty (pathway to citizenship) for DACA enrollees
  • ++++ amnesty (pathway to citizenship) for other illegal aliens
  • ++++ green card application for parents of DACA enrollees (ie DAPA)
  • ++ rule against child separation at the border


the republicans gets:
  • + end of the diversity via lottery
  • ++ $25 billion for wall funding
  • + removes 3 week limit on detaining families with children when kept together
  • + lengthens detention of illegal aliens facing trial
  • + allows citizens to sue cities for crimes committed by illegal aliens they failed to detain
  • + removes "married children of United States citizens and siblings of adult citizens." from family-based visas


Looks to me like an absurdly one-sided bargain. IE, its halfway between the republicans who support DACA and the democrats who support DACA, and far removed from the republicans who oppose DACA.
I mean, its being presented as 'too hard-line' by sites like the NYT, but this is giveway to democrats as written, and I say that as someone who would rather see a DACA solution.

The fact is, the two big sticking points for the two sides are Amnesty and Merit-based Immigration. If a bill only presents one of these and not the other, it can't truly be a compromise. This bill's only concession to merit-based immigration is to add it as a special scrutiny for amnesty applications (lol) and to remove a couple categories of family visas. It does not overhaul US immigration to be merit-based like Trump and his supporters want. Everything else- the wall, schumer visas, suing cities- these are peanuts. The kinds of sweeteners you add to a deal to help politicians sell it to their constituents, not the meat of the package that is being haggled.

If President Trump lends his support to this bill, it will show he's actually much further to the left than his supporters

well...

drumpf is further left than most of his supporters
he should reject this right quick fast

thats a lot of amnesty offerings to individuals that, if you gave them one flag to fly, it surely wouldnt be USAs
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#20116
Jun 14 2018 07:02pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 14 2018 08:45pm)
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/gop-daca-draft/index.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/06/14/gop-immigration-text-releasted/703064002/
latest immigration "compromise"

the democrats get:
  • +++ permanent status for 1.8 million DACA enrollees with one-time limit slots
  • ++++ amnesty (pathway to citizenship) for DACA enrollees
  • ++++ amnesty (pathway to citizenship) for other illegal aliens
  • ++++ green card application for parents of DACA enrollees (ie DAPA)
  • ++ rule against child separation at the border


the republicans gets:
  • + end of the diversity via lottery
  • ++ $25 billion for wall funding
  • + removes 3 week limit on detaining families with children when kept together
  • + lengthens detention of illegal aliens facing trial
  • + allows citizens to sue cities for crimes committed by illegal aliens they failed to detain
  • + removes "married children of United States citizens and siblings of adult citizens." from family-based visas


Looks to me like an absurdly one-sided bargain. IE, its halfway between the republicans who support DACA and the democrats who support DACA, and far removed from the republicans who oppose DACA.
I mean, its being presented as 'too hard-line' by sites like the NYT, but this is giveway to democrats as written, and I say that as someone who would rather see a DACA solution.

The fact is, the two big sticking points for the two sides are Amnesty and Merit-based Immigration. If a bill only presents one of these and not the other, it can't truly be a compromise. This bill's only concession to merit-based immigration is to add it as a special scrutiny for amnesty applications (lol) and to remove a couple categories of family visas. It does not overhaul US immigration to be merit-based like Trump and his supporters want. Everything else- the wall, schumer visas, suing cities- these are peanuts. The kinds of sweeteners you add to a deal to help politicians sell it to their constituents, not the meat of the package that is being haggled.

If President Trump lends his support to this bill, it will show he's actually much further to the left than his supporters


He is. I'm praying the Dems stonewall per usual
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#20117
Jun 14 2018 07:03pm
Quote (HeLiCaL @ Jun 14 2018 06:47pm)
how many years does pathway to citizen last?


6 years if I'm reading that right, and notably it opens the door to other illegal aliens as listed. I'm not sure whether than 6 years is supposed to be 'time served' or start the clock ticking. If its retroactive, it would immediately open the door to tons of new DACA citizens on day 1
I haven't got the exact specifics or numbers on a lot of the proposals, just wading through various media reports.


Are there any legislators in congress who are actually seriously pursuing a merit-based immigration for amnesty compromise? Because so far the only tell I've heard of it came from Trumps twitter

Quote (EndlessSky @ Jun 14 2018 07:02pm)
He is. I'm praying the Dems stonewall per usual


afaik Trump just gave his blessing to the process of seeking compromise and there's a second bill being hammered out to compete with this one
he hasn't weighed in on the specific proposals yet.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jun 14 2018 07:06pm
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#20118
Jun 14 2018 07:09pm
trump gives the democrats more than he should and certainly more than i expected
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#20119
Jun 14 2018 07:28pm
I think for full context given its doing a bad impression of Trump's 4 Pillars, I should go into detail about the chain migration and the propsals
the current allows visas are:

Quote
1. Immediate relative (or “family reunification”) visas, available to applicants having a “close family relationship” with a U.S. citizen:
– Spouses
– Unmarried children under 21
– Orphans adopted abroad or to be adopted in the U.S.
– Parents (if citizen is 21 or older)

2. Family preference visas, available to applicants with “specific, more distant, family relationships with a U.S. citizen and some specified relationships with a lawful permanent resident”:
– Unmarried sons and daughter of U.S. citizens and their minor children, if any
– Spouses, minor children, and unmarried sons and daughters 21 or older of LPRs
– Married sons and daughters of U.S. citizens and their spouses and minor children
– Siblings of U.S. citizens and their spouses and minor children (if citizens are 21 or older)


If this bill was passed, it would amend that list to:

Quote
1. Immediate relative (or “family reunification”) visas, available to applicants having a “close family relationship” with a U.S. citizen:
– Spouses
– Unmarried children under 21
– Orphans adopted abroad or to be adopted in the U.S.
– Parents (if citizen is 21 or older)

2. Family preference visas, available to applicants with “specific, more distant, family relationships with a U.S. citizen and some specified relationships with a lawful permanent resident”:
– Unmarried sons and daughter of U.S. citizens and their minor children, if any
– Spouses, minor children, and unmarried sons and daughters 21 or older of LPRs


Under Trump's proposed columns, it would have amended it to:

Quote
1. Immediate relative (or “family reunification”) visas, available to applicants having a “close family relationship” with a U.S. citizen:
– Spouses
– Unmarried children under 21
– Orphans adopted abroad or to be adopted in the U.S.



Just limiting chain migration is only halfway to achieving merit based immigration, since you'd also want something like Canada's point system to proactively filter visas by merit.
This compromise solution only goes a fraction of the way into limiting chain migration and doesn't try to do merit based immigration at all

I can understand a compromise giving DACA permanent status in exchange for the diversity visa and border funding and a tweak to chain migration, but giving full blown citizenship to illegal aliens should require full blown merit based immigration in exchange to be a palatable trade to the Trump wing

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jun 14 2018 07:31pm
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#20120
Jun 14 2018 09:21pm


You know this bill hasn't even passed the House yet, right?



Rocky road ahead for 'Dreamer' immigrants bill in U.S. House

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sponsored-migraine/getting-back-to-business-migraine-management-in-silicon-valley-idUSKBN1I9296

Quote
The draft is one of two immigration proposals expected to be voted on in the House next week.

The other is a conservative Republican measure that would sharply reduce legal immigration, build a wall on the Mexican border and deny Dreamers the chance of citizenship.






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