The ancestors of snakes had legs, of course I knew that.

It wasnt snakes tho, it was their ancestors.
So if the snake of the bible had legs, it wasnt a snake. Saying that snakes once had legs is the same as saying whales once had legs.
If this is evidence for you, then I'm glad you are not a judge or attorney or someone else important in the justice system.

This is just another example of bible logic. Incredible.

By the way, evolution perfectly explains how and why snakes evolved into the group of animals they are today.

This post was edited by Modulok2405 on Mar 25 2022 06:03am

endless excuses as expected

snakes had legs, first heard in the first book of the bible

evolution? you believe the loss of function, the loss of information is evolution "macro" and upwards movement? sounds like its going in the downwards direction

loss of function, the loss of information, perfect harmony with the biblical narrative.
biblical narrative which you know zero about but will scoff about it any way.

A certain group of lizards evolved into snakes for good reason.
Its not a loss of function for this group of animals, its a gain. It suits them. Thats how evolution works.
Its sad that you guys cant grasp that.

You hear something about evolutionary science and proudly work it into your bible to present it as proof, but reject it, when it doesnt suit you just to call reasonable people like me, people with "excuses" afterwards.
Snakes existed the way they are today for well over 100 Million years, long long LONG before anything close to human beings wandered around (bet you dont take that scientific information as serious, right? Just the ones you like?)

Btw. Scientists are fairly certain they evolved from four legged amphibic lizards, but the missing link has yet to be found. So there is no actual physical proof for this. Just logical evolutionary hints of evidence.

Again, snakes DID NOT have legs. The word snake as well as the word serpent literally means limbless lizard.

By the way, they also seem to have lost their ability to speak...I wonder why science hasnt found this missing link right? Maybe because its fairy tale bullshit?

This post was edited by Modulok2405 on Mar 25 2022 06:27am

endless excuses

i also posted two links about snakes had legs. now you seem to think your qualified to correct the articles. we see your excuses.


also the definition of snake
snake
/snāk/
Learn to pronounce
See definitions in:
all
reptile
economics
plumbing
noun
noun: snake; plural noun: snakes; noun: snake in the grass; plural noun: snakes in the grass; noun: the snake; noun: plumber's snake; plural noun: plumber's snakes

1.
a long limbless reptile which has no eyelids, a short tail, and jaws that are capable of considerable extension. Some snakes have a venomous bite.
h
Similar:
serpent

ophidian
Joe Blake

(in general use) a limbless lizard or amphibian.

2.
a treacherous or deceitful person

Yeah, endless excuses. Excuses for what?

I edited my other post, but since you read it before I guess I can answer another time. Why not?

By the way, thx for the word explanation but I was talking about the origin of the word.

Snakes are the way they are today (limbless) for well over 100 Million years, thats a proven fact. SO they existed like that LONG before anything even close to a human being walked the earth, which is also a proven fact.

A lot of them are extremely specialized and quick Apex Predators, very skilled THANKS to their body shape, that is also a fact. Thats how evolution works, it specializes life forms to suit their way of living. Evolution follows the same principle as for example dog breeding does. The difference is, that evolution is a VERY slow and natural process where as breeding or domesticating dogs (or other animals) is a very fast manmade form of specialization.

By the way how did this one snake talk back then? And whom did it talk to? humans werent around for millions of years? Why did God do this to a whole group of animals rather then to this one individual animal?

Could it maybe, just maybe have been like that:

People always feared snakes, they also feared them a few thousand years ago, when the scriptures were written.
They, just like us today, saw their toungues slide in and out, they saw them crawl around so they interpreted them in a certain way, just like we interpret pigs and dumb and dirty, which they arent...snakes are interpreted as slimy, treacherous, deceitful and what ever else - thats why the snake had to be the bad boy in this metaphoric story in the bible. Snakes got mocked for their appearance, thats it.

Thats also just a theory, I dont know. But its a lot more plausible than yours I would say :-D

This post was edited by Modulok2405 on Mar 25 2022 06:44am

I'll answer OP because the rest of the discussion seems bullcrap. Religions are more or less a combined collection of ethical directives from our ancestors which worked in their time generation after generation. They didn't invent religions, those directives crystallized themselves over thousands of years. Populations which lived according to other types of directives died out or were assimilated so what we've got today are the most effective ways to live with each other if you disregard the way those values were transferred through sayings, tales psalms etc. That was the way to spread information back then. Then, one needed a way to enforce those rules. The concept of sins and punishment for a wrongdoing are deeply routed in religion for that reason. They were meant to bring basic order. Every religious person thought god "was everywhere" watching over the individual. The tales about Cain and Abel were meant to teach people how to respect each other, to learn from past mistakes. Of course, as civilizations grew, law enforcement replaced religion more and more over time. Today, we hardly have any concept of sins and punishment in western world, we've got law enforcement instead. That's one aspect. The second reason is the basic human need for a purpose. Religion gives people who can't think for themselves a basic purpose. It might sound naive but faith in a religion is a very effective way to psychologically condition oneself against hardships, misery etc. Those people don't give up easily where else other people would break down or choose suicide. You'd find an extremely high correlation between being religious and living in subpar conditions. The third one is the existential question where we came from and where we're headed to. The problem lies within human evolution. Our ancestors observed processes, analyzed the middle for their use in hunting, gathering or whatever resources with a time function in their head. We observe and analyze everything in flow of time but what was then at the beginning and where is the actual end? The flaw is in nature you don't need a "purpose' or a "beginning". For things to exist, they don't need an end or an aim to achieve, they simply exist, yet, the concept is alien to the way a human brain functions so we make up origins and purposes to cope with reality. To this day, no one knows why the basic forces exist (gravity, electricity, nuclear etc.) we just know or discover the rules how to apply them for our use. And nope, religion doesn't answer the question either. Without our dependency/interaction with each other, life is truly meaningless. Try to have friends and to not isolate yourself. Religion provides that, too. All people gather and interact with each other regardless of any exceptions like being racist, woke, capitalist or other -ist.

So, people who say the tales in religion were reality (creationist) are just as much low IQ as people who disregard religions as a relicts of the past. Every law system in the western world is based upon the first 10 rules from bible. Why does faith in religion still exist? Well, philosophy after renaissance failed to fill the void left by religion. Today, we try to oust from our perspective "outdated" values and directives from religions by introducing new values. For example, back then, they didn't have contraception combined with a high child+mother mortality rate. Reproduction was a basic directive in those religions which survived. Abortion, contraception and negligible death rate by standards back then didn't exist so they are in stark contrast to outdated religious concepts yet we can't continue as before and let humanity grow even bigger. This is were adaption is required. They're many more problematic concepts. However, most of them are still intact. I'd never agree to abortion close to or after the 7th month. That's murder to me, for example. There are red lines everywhere.

Thanks for this very well articulated and thoughtful answer to my question.

But let me say, that I would absolutely see religion as a relic of the past (and please dont rate my IQ as low as the creationsts IQ), but I am also always willing to learn, if someone's view gives me new perspectives.

What is so outdated for me when we talk about religion is that it doesnt have a foundation in reality.
I understand that it gives people comfort, i absolutely do.
But wouldnt it help us all as a human society, if we would change the perspective of religious people back to a more fruitful standard? Shouldnt your values always originate in truth rather than stories?
If you can backtrack your thoughts and values to existing sources, if you can take responability for your action, and create purpose without an imaginary foundation, wouldnt that be extremely beneficial for us as humans to slowly break those chains? I dont mean breaking those chains by forcing people into something, i mean by subtile changes, maybe by better education and stuff like that?

As long as people think that this life is all just a test for the real life afterwards, they will never feel free and will never live the life they should live (although they think they do).
Religious believes in my opinion, supress creativity in every way possible.

English is not my first language, so sorry - I can articualte myself any better than that in english.

This post was edited by Modulok2405 on Mar 25 2022 07:26am

Genesis 3:14
“And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:”

How Snakes Lost Their Legs
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/20/498575639/how-snakes-lost-their-legs

When Snakes Had Legs...
https://youngzine.org/news/history/when-snakes-had-legs

the articles say snakes. they dont turn into lizards cause you want it so.

its plenty clear the bible said it first thousands of years before man discovered it.

your evolution "macro" is not proven. it is a fairy tale story submerged into deep time and imagination, defying the scientific method. observable testable repeatable it is not and therefore not scientific.







you sure your not mired in subjective reasoning? it sounds good to you so its what you believe?

There're very simple examples of not so outdated concepts. Let's take fasting. Besides having really well documented health benefits, fasting teaches us abstinence, how hunger and misery really feels like. During that time, one becomes more spiritual because one of the "pleasures" is absent. When you see pictures of people dying of hunger you really are compassionate because you remotely know how it feels like. In stark contrast, you've got modern American or British society gor example. They're used to immediate instant gratification, consumption, "comfort". All of that flows into an overweight, impatient, egoistic society which slowly destroys itself over time, something known from the past as decadence.
Then you have divisions in society according to hobbies, food preference (vegan, vegetarian etc), racist, leftist and so on. Religions require them to interact each other no matter what. Without interaction, their views slowly become extremist because they can't/don't compare their views with the ones from other groups. They think their way is the only right way. The more a society is divided in this way the less does a representant of a group care for the rest of the society. They become egoistic without noticing themselves. Once in power, their rules weaken the majouroty or result in foul compromises. Again, US American society is a prime example. Decadence is so developed there that groups don't even discuss with each for the most part.

As you see those simple directives might look unimportant or outdated by modern standards but they destroy a healthy society if not implemented in other ways.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Mar 25 2022 08:11am

Same reason Donald Trump was elected POTUS, the world is becoming dumber.