Quote (thesnipa @ 2 Jul 2019 15:44)

throws milk shakes at others, cries when their masks get pulled off.

you scum deserve a lot worse than unmasking. what is this mexican wrestling? once the mask comes off the mob mentality bravado you cowards are passing off as honor melts away?

Quote (TransTankie @ Jul 2 2019 08:50am)

So the option you would take is to allow white supremacists to march uncontested and unchallenged?

Quote (Beowulf @ 2 Jul 2019 15:54)

people can march for any dumb thing they want to and believe any dumb thing they want

violence is the line, those that cross the line are in the wrong

Quote (TransTankie @ Jul 2 2019 08:56am)

Ok. so if a group marches and another group marches in counterprotest there's no problem right? It's only when people start violence that there's a problem in your eyes.
Going back to the video the altercation begins with an antifa kid being grabbed from behind in a headlock and dragged away. So would you say they should defend that dude or just let him get beat on?

Quote (Beowulf @ Jul 2 2019 08:28am)

https://i.imgur.com/MIxBTOG.png

who is this person they have on the ground mob stomping before the guy approaches from behind and grabs one of the assaulters

Quote (TransTankie @ Jul 2 2019 09:54am)

This is such a shallow take it's barely worth me responding to. Nobody is crying at getting their mask pulled off.

I know - I've heard it all buddy. We deserve way worse. A bullet to the back of the head and left in a Portland gutter was the quote from one Proud Boy at this event. I regularly get messages telling me they're gonna throw acid in my face or I should get raped by a gang of n---ers.
The people we deal with are human scum. But you keep defending them if you like. That is, after all, what centrists do. They lick the boots of the fash.

Quote (TransTankie @ Jul 2 2019 10:41am)

Uhuh... how about groups that defend themselves when attacked by several people? Should they hang back if they outnumber their aggressors?
And what about the kid that was hanging back from the actual violence that your 'de-escalator' grabbed from behind?

I'm not saying you're pro Patriot Prayer. I know you better than to think you'd be supporting the far-right. You're a left-leaning liberal from what I've seen. What seems more likely to me is that the narrative around antifa being masked thugs who attack innocent people is incredibly pervasive and it's easy to be swayed by it.

Let me give you a couple of things to think on though. With regards to the masks - antifa are notorious for not trusting the police. This comes from a long history of police protecting and supporting far right groups that goes back to dresden and cable street. Often the police will support and escort fascists (not an exaggeration - cable street and dresden were both events where antifascists opposed self-confessed fascists) through blockades put up by counter demonstrators who don't want fascists marching through their neighbourhoods. As I said earlier - the masks are to protect from prosecution. Because the police are often on the side of fascists and like to target the antifascists for their direct actions as evidenced recently by the police helicopter feed just before Heather Heyer was killed that was shown in court. Consider this event specifically - I have mentioned that Portland police have been caught supporting, passing information to and letting off members of Patriot Prayer.
Why wouldn't they want to protect their identities when they have very good reason to believe the police are on the side of the people they are there to protest against and that those people will assault them as they have declared they want to do?

Secondly - and this may be tough to believe - but most antifa people I know, myself included, are against violence unless they are directly physically attacked or they have to defend someone else who is being attacked. You don;t have to take it from me. I wasn't going to share this as it is material I'm going to use for a youtube video in future but here is a video of the talk I had with Daryle Lamont Jenkins. You can google him if you want but he is a dyed in the wool antifascist with a long history of attending these events and was at charlottesville.
This interview is being held in a discord channel full of antifascists - he has no media to play up to. Listen to what he has to say at 18.05 when I ask him if there are 'any groups other than white supremacists that he thinks political violence is justified against and if he thinks political violence is justified at all' -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_2UDdEZL5M

Quote (TransTankie @ Jul 2 2019 08:56am)

Ok. so if a group marches and another group marches in counterprotest there's no problem right? It's only when people start violence that there's a problem in your eyes.
Going back to the video the altercation begins with an antifa kid being grabbed from behind in a headlock and dragged away. So would you say they should defend that dude or just let him get beat on?

Also - what if the thing they are marching for is violence?

Quote (Beowulf @ 2 Jul 2019 15:57)

I don't believe I ever got an answer to this?

Quote (thesnipa @ 2 Jul 2019 15:58)

one might almost guess that im just shit posting based on how shallow of a take. one, not you, but one. someONE, anyONE, everyONE else, but not you.

no no you go straight to the same place you always do. ineffectually slinging racism accusations while strawmanning anyone who disagrees with you to any extent as supporting your enemies. we're either with you and buy what you're selling at face value or we're boot licking racists.

Quote (TransTankie @ Jul 2 2019 09:05am)

I couldn't tell you. It's not the guy that grabbed the kid to start. He's wearing a different shirt. Someone else who joined the fray.

Or if you want to believe the fash it's probably a 93 yr old pregnant world war 2 vet who was just out buying medicine for his sick grandmother when he got called a fascist for wearing a purple hat and jumped by a group of armed, masked thugs.



Again - nuance my dude. You don't have to be a racist to contribute to the propagandist narratives that allow racists to swing people to their side. You don't have to be a fascist to create the conditions necessary for fascists to gain power.

Quote (Beowulf @ 2 Jul 2019 16:04)

If they are violating the law in any way you go through the legal process

if the legal process fails you push for legal changes

Mobs vs one is not a case for self defense

getting violent over bad ideas is not self defense

imaginations and fantasies are not grounds for self defense