And what is the source of that miracle?
The first law of thermodynamics doesn't prove the existence of a god lol.

So, what you are saying is that matter always was, with no cause. Then there is a little thing called scientific law.

So, how did the scientific laws such as gravity, inertia, ect. evolve with no God?

So you believe that matter contradicted scientific law by existing without a creator? No matter if the matter had a beginning or not, it's contradicting to scientific law for it to exist in the first place.

This post was edited by xfrodobagginsx on Apr 6 2012 01:49pm

I think your brain is broken. I'd try to argue why the things you say are so stupid but you're obviously too stupid to understand since you're stupid enough to say them.

You're just not getting it. Don't insult me because you don't understand please. Yes it does prove that the matter and energy cannot exist on their own. Read it for yourself. They cannot be created nor destroyed, so it is impossible for them to exist.

This post was edited by xfrodobagginsx on Apr 6 2012 01:51pm

Science does not dictate that there should be a creator.

This. Matter and energy were never created. They are here, have been here, and will always be here, to infinity in both directions.

Existence does not need cause or validation. It is merely existence itself. I exist therefore I exist therefore I exist. There is no cause for it.

This post was edited by asdfasdf119 on Apr 6 2012 01:51pm

So, you place your faith in matter and energy then? What about scientific law? Where did they come from? Did they self exist as well?

Scienctific laws are just the explanations we have for how the universe behaves. It does not dictate how the universe should be, it just expresses how the universe is.

Scientific Law is not created. We have only "discovered" some of them. A scientific law is not an explanation for any phenomena, but only a distillation of a cause and effect experiment that has been repeated tested to be verified and thus labelled as said "law".

Whether we know of the existence of Gravity does not change whether it exists or not.

Edit: xfrodobagginsx, you are basing your entire argument for God on the basis that every question must have a proponent of cause and effects, and thus there must be Ad Finitum sequences of events, that must therefore have some sort of root, the "cause" of all future "causes and effects". If you try to realize the concept that Ad Infinitum is so large that it is impossible for us to comprehend since there is no scale that can measure it, then you will understand that you have linguistically defeated yourself.

To quote:

"Conservation of Energy and Thermodynamics laws state that matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, therefore, it is IMPOSSIBLE for matter and energy to exist on thier own according to scientific law, YET it exists. Everything your see, hear, touch around you is a miracle from God. It cannot exist according to science."

It cannot be created nor destroyed. Therefore God cannot create it. If God created it, then this is no longer a scientific law. You have linguistically defeated yourself ~_~

This post was edited by asdfasdf119 on Apr 6 2012 02:02pm

I understand perfectly the idea that you're trying to convey. I understand it so much that I can see how it is flawed and ludicrous. I challenge you to really try and figure out how smart you really are. Think about what kind of scores you got on standardized tests, what kind of grades you got in school, try and realize that you're in fact an idiot. The audacity to think you can prove god through petty word games and out of context interpretations of science would be insulting to such a deity if he did in fact exist and is absolutely detrimental to the intellectual growth of mankind. You are a witch burner, you're the men who killed other men for saying the earth isn't the center of the universe. Your disgusting desire to place absolutes shackles mankind's desire for knowledge and understanding and you should be ashamed at how horrible of a pox you are upon this planet. I wish you swift death and hope your filthy sermons never fall on the ears of someone unlucky enough to be corrupted by them.

This post was edited by MyEnemy on Apr 6 2012 02:06pm