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Jun 12 2021 01:20pm
Quote (IceMage @ Jun 12 2021 01:54pm)
There's no serious evidence for widespread voter fraud.... the "Stop the Steal" nonsense is just covering for Trump's loss and enabling Republican authoritarians to change laws and garner the political capital among it's base to steal the next election.


Did you not watch any of the state legislative hearings across multiple states?

Have you not seen the thousands of pages of affidavits?

Or more recently, Ruby Freeman & daughter are in deep shit?

Why are you undermining the voices of Americans who came forward to state on the record what they have witnessed, across multiple states? Do you really think that is a mere coincidence or was planned?

Why is the DOJ investigating the audit itself and not the reason for the audit? Why are 100s of Dem lawyers throwing everything they can at the audit to stop it? Everyone should care about an honest election because without it, America is nothing.
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Jun 12 2021 01:21pm
When I voted in Arizona in 2016, I went to a ballot location and dropped off my absentee ballot, the same as I did in Oregon since 2000. Like Oregon, ID verification was a requirement by law in Arizona. Unlike in Oregon, nobody asked for my ID in Arizona. They just said, "Drop it in that box" and called it good. No verification, didn't even watch that I was only dropping one ballot, didn't verify the privacy envelope was correct or that anything was signed, nothing. They essentially treated the absentee ballots as though they were not in-person voting. Based on that fact, I could have dropped off 9000 ballots that were not mine, not just mine, and it'd have been just fine.

I don't know that there's fraud in Maricopa County. I do know that they do not abide by the laws as they are written. I do know that proof of citizenship has become a fast and loose "theory" as opposed to a simple standard. I also know that the voting machines are proprietary hardware and software owned by multinational corporations which do not necessarily benefit by a free and fair election.

The 2020 election is done. Joe Biden is President. That's not going to change as a result of any audits. The primary concern, which should be shared by all parties involved is: Are the election methods that were used in 2020 legitimate? If they are, fine. If they are not, then your vote, or the idea of voting itself, does not matter. If the system can be cheated, then the only question is, "Who's better at cheating it?"
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Jun 12 2021 01:27pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Jun 12 2021 12:21pm)
When I voted in Arizona in 2016, I went to a ballot location and dropped off my absentee ballot, the same as I did in Oregon since 2000. Like Oregon, ID verification was a requirement by law in Arizona. Unlike in Oregon, nobody asked for my ID in Arizona. They just said, "Drop it in that box" and called it good. No verification, didn't even watch that I was only dropping one ballot, didn't verify the privacy envelope was correct or that anything was signed, nothing. They essentially treated the absentee ballots as though they were not in-person voting. Based on that fact, I could have dropped off 9000 ballots that were not mine, not just mine, and it'd have been just fine.

I don't know that there's fraud in Maricopa County. I do know that they do not abide by the laws as they are written. I do know that proof of citizenship has become a fast and loose "theory" as opposed to a simple standard. I also know that the voting machines are proprietary hardware and software owned by multinational corporations which do not necessarily benefit by a free and fair election.

The 2020 election is done. Joe Biden is President. That's not going to change as a result of any audits. The primary concern, which should be shared by all parties involved is: Are the election methods that were used in 2020 legitimate? If they are, fine. If they are not, then your vote, or the idea of voting itself, does not matter. If the system can be cheated, then the only question is, "Who's better at cheating it?"


What makes you say that?
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Jun 12 2021 03:04pm
Quote (Shakti @ Jun 11 2021 04:17am)
I am genuinely very curious how people so dramatically affected by propaganda will act when election fraud is exposed in AZ, leading to more states performing full audits and finding more and more fraud. All that fraud will initiate a chain reaction of indictments consisting of everything 80% of the world knows to be true: corruption at a magnitude no one knew was occurring for decades under all of our noses. Its already starting to happen and unfortunately nytimes, wapo, Reuters, AP, and many others you undoubtedly trust will not tell you about it or twist words and phrasing to put blame on Trump. You guys talk about the system being the problem yet you are supporting that same system of which we are trying to get you to see. Its truly not about Reps vs Dems whatsoever, thats the thing you guys frequently miss. You all make it sound like we're auditing the election because we cant accept a Trump defeat. Whats happening in the world right now is MUCH bigger than any 1 person or party which you will not grasp in the slightest as long as you keep reading state sponsored propaganda and accepting the opinions of doctors and other scientists who are in some way motivated by politics (money, favors, frequent contributions/donations, etc), which is a very large and surprising amount if you were to research the authors and companies of what you read.


The Biden administration is literally using every tool at his disposal to try and cover it all up.

Sadly he might succeed.
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Jun 12 2021 03:49pm
Quote (IceMage @ Jun 12 2021 02:54pm)
There's no serious evidence for widespread voter fraud.... the "Stop the Steal" nonsense is just covering for Trump's loss and enabling Republican authoritarians to change laws and garner the political capital among it's base to steal the next election.


Why is Biden trying to halt the audit then?
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Jun 12 2021 03:59pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Jun 12 2021 04:49pm)
Why is Biden trying to halt the audit then?


Because it is a waste of time and only serves to get idiots to distrust the system. If there's something we've seen clearly it's that even totally normal actions can be made to look sinister if you actively lie about them.
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Jun 12 2021 04:03pm
The disunited states are aptly named.
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Jun 12 2021 04:43pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Jun 12 2021 05:59pm)
Because it is a waste of time and only serves to get idiots to distrust the system. If there's something we've seen clearly it's that even totally normal actions can be made to look sinister if you actively lie about them.


That's just false though.

If you were right, he would just let the audit go through so that he could rub it in the GOP's face.

Its like Biden's mistake with the oil pipeline. If Biden had actually made any progress in finding the hackers, he would have made it public, not covered it up.
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Jun 12 2021 04:45pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Jun 12 2021 05:43pm)
That's just false though.

If you were right, he would just let the audit go through so that he could rub it in the GOP's face.

Its like Biden's mistake with the oil pipeline. If Biden had actually made any progress in finding the hackers, he would have made it public, not covered it up.


Except everybody who is informed enough for the rubbing to do anything already know the election was legit. This is purely to spread doubt to motivate the loonies.
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Jun 12 2021 04:47pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ 12 Jun 2021 15:43)
That's just false though.

If you were right, he would just let the audit go through so that he could rub it in the GOP's face.

Its like Biden's mistake with the oil pipeline. If Biden had actually made any progress in finding the hackers, he would have made it public, not covered it up.


You've lost the thread. There is no "federal election". Period. Done. End of story.

The Constitution gives no right whatsoever to federal agencies to interfere in elections, or even take part. There's a process to contest an election you're involved in, but that's it.

Elections are a state and local right, Constitutionally guaranteed, and States and localities have full purview on how they handle their elections, as well as any audits, recounts, etc.

The federal government can become involved if the state violates their Constitutional mandates, they can become involved if there's crime committed. That's it. One of those is Judicial, the other is DOJ.

So the real answer has nothing to do with right, wrong, win, lose, fraud, or clean. The real answer is that this is yet another attempt by agents of the Federal Government to usurp the rights and authority of the States.
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