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Feb 17 2021 03:29pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 17 2021 03:23pm)
Am I looking at the right graph? The graph you showed measures growth in output.


Oh I see that now. Long and boring day.

Anyway, that's just an example I pulled from google. If you graph it against inflation then wages are basically stagnant. If every worker is producing more they should have more buying power overall. I.e. every worker doubles production, if that was reflected in cheaper products instead of more profit we would see prices go down and as a result the wages would increase faster than inflation, but that hasn't happened. Meanwhile corporate profits are up, meaning the difference hasn't been used to save the consumer money.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Feb 17 2021 03:30pm
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Feb 17 2021 03:30pm
Cheaper products is a valid point, as is shrinkflation.
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Feb 17 2021 03:43pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Feb 17 2021 04:29pm)
Oh I see that now. Long and boring day.

Anyway, that's just an example I pulled from google. If you graph it against inflation then wages are basically stagnant. If every worker is producing more they should have more buying power overall. I.e. every worker doubles production, if that was reflected in cheaper products instead of more profit we would see prices go down and as a result the wages would increase faster than inflation, but that hasn't happened. Meanwhile corporate profits are up, meaning the difference hasn't been used to save the consumer money.


We have seen buying power increase, though. Compare basket of good items (i.e. milk, bread) against their inflation adjusted prices from 50 years ago. And even when just comparing modern conveniences, you don't think someone today is living a better life than someone at a similar inflation adjusted income ~20 years ago?

This isn't to say that all productivity gains are necessarily funneled into cheaper products, but its one of the avenues corporations takes when trying to maximize profit.
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Feb 17 2021 03:47pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 17 2021 03:43pm)
We have seen buying power increase, though. Compare basket of good items (i.e. milk, bread) against their inflation adjusted prices from 50 years ago. And even when just comparing modern conveniences, you don't think someone today is living a better life than someone at a similar inflation adjusted income ~20 years ago?

This isn't to say that all productivity gains are necessarily funneled into cheaper products, but its one of the avenues corporations takes when trying to maximize profit.


You can't just take a basket from 50 years ago to today and call it good. Those "modern conveniences" are often not conveniences. Internet service is a necessity for every household, and some other things like education (college is now the high school equivalent so you have to add that in along with the time premium of paying back the loans and forgoing income) and healthcare have absolutely fucking exploded.

So no, I wouldn't say that, at least not without a lot of caveats.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Feb 17 2021 03:48pm
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Feb 17 2021 03:57pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Feb 17 2021 04:47pm)
You can't just take a basket from 50 years ago to today and call it good. Those "modern conveniences" are often not conveniences. Internet service is a necessity for every household, and some other things like education (college is now the high school equivalent so you have to add that in along with the time premium of paying back the loans and forgoing income) and healthcare have absolutely fucking exploded.

So no, I wouldn't say that, at least not without a lot of caveats.


The internet is a necessity because it represents an enormous improvement to quality of life. That is to the point. People can and do live without it, but most of us clearly don't want to.

The cost of basic goods has gone down. Cars, internet, phones, food, clothing are all far more affordable. That represents a tangible increase in the quality of life.
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Feb 17 2021 03:58pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Feb 17 2021 04:29pm)
Oh I see that now. Long and boring day.

Anyway, that's just an example I pulled from google. If you graph it against inflation then wages are basically stagnant. If every worker is producing more they should have more buying power overall. I.e. every worker doubles production, if that was reflected in cheaper products instead of more profit we would see prices go down and as a result the wages would increase faster than inflation, but that hasn't happened. Meanwhile corporate profits are up, meaning the difference hasn't been used to save the consumer money.


My internet goes up in costs every few months without getting any better because fuck you its an oligopoly, you gonna start your own isp 🤷‍♂️?
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Feb 17 2021 04:00pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 17 2021 03:57pm)
The internet is a necessity because it represents an enormous improvement to quality of life. That is to the point. People can and do live without it, but most of us clearly don't want to.

The cost of basic goods has gone down. Cars, internet, phones, food, clothing are all far more affordable. That represents a tangible increase in the quality of life.


Some things have gone down, but other things that are necessary for a great many people in society like healthcare and education have exploded.

Things that have gotten cheaper aren't necessarily better. Food for instance has gotten cheaper as its lost nutritional value and been loaded with corn syrup. So cheaper does not necessarily mean tangible improvement.

Like I said, it's not cut and dry that buying power has increased.
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Feb 17 2021 04:02pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Feb 17 2021 03:43pm)
yes but productivity and profit arent the same thing. if these graphs were linked to corporate profits i'd understand, inflation i really understand, productivity calculations are always going to be skewed by gains in technology. especially given the internet revolution, where products can be now created in a virtual space with no raw materials used. comparing 1910s where goods were wood, leather, and steel to the 2010s where many goods are phone calls, apps, and such is nonsensical.


They are linked
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Feb 17 2021 04:20pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Feb 17 2021 01:58pm)
My internet goes up in costs every few months without getting any better because fuck you its an oligopoly, you gonna start your own isp 🤷‍♂️?


cam did, why can't you?
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Feb 17 2021 05:15pm
In 1971 when Nixon closed the gold window, severing the last tie between the dollar and gold, the minimum wage was $1.60/hour and gold was $40.80/oz. This meant that full time employment was worth ~78 oz of gold per year. At today's prices, 78 oz of gold would be worth $140,000, or 70/hour. Inflation is a lie. End the Fed.
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