The Soviets had no intention of invading the domestic United States. The Chinese have no such intention. But it does not mean in either case that the Chinese or Soviets are not military threats.

The Chinese weaponize trade and control of natural resources. They are a despotic totalitarian state actively reading 1984 for source material. Giving them control over 1/3 of the human race, and the economic and military capacity to dominate much of the rest, would be a catastrophic mistake.

If the government of Taiwan would destroy their own people's economic future rather than see it fall to the hands of a succeeding government, they're a shitty government.

Further, your assertion that missile guidance systems are being built by Taiwan is just a joke. The overwhelming majority of US guidance systems are US built and manufactured by companies such as Qualcomm. Hell, even the chips that're in our satellite grid are Qualcomm. Produced in America, NOT Taiwan.

You're very alarmist, and expect me to simply accept that China is an economic enemy. That's not proven, and if you want to talk of "the good of humanity" there are some 1.5 Billion humans in China. As their tech and infrastructure improves, the lifestyles of 1.5 billion people improves with it. As a humanist, wouldn't you think China deserves support?



Odd assertion. Why hasn't China nationalized all the US Chip fabrication facilities then, or blocked any of the export of US produced chips back to the US? I get that you're trying to link China's action with PPE as something they'd do with tech infrastructure, but they've had plenty of opportunity and far from doing so, they're actively supporting tech company expansion, without much personal benefit.

I'm truly more concerned with the very fact that for a few select specialized chip types, Taiwan appears to have a virtual monopoly and you appear to be supporting that monopoly. Isn't this why monopolies are bad? When there's a monopoly, you can be forced into doing things against your values merely to get the product?



The Soviets refused to trade with the US. We're a trade nation. We like to start wars over refusal to trade. The one thing China CAN be relied on to do is trade. The Soviets were a natural enemy. The Chinese are not.

And the US doesn't need China's natural resources. We trade them ours in return for manufactured and processed goods. We literally have a symbiotic relationship that greatly benefits us both.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 3 2021 09:39pm

China is already extorting the United States on trade, they already see the United States as a geopolitical competitor, and they are already censoring American corporations. China cannot do the things you ask now, at a time when the United States is clearly the more powerful party. These things get worse as China gains economic and military leverage, not better.

China is open about how it deals with competition. Hong Kong was an ideological competitor, it's gone. Xinjiang is being raped in non-existent (literally). Nations that freely interact with Taiwan are punished, corporations which criticize CCP positions are ostracized. Again, these things are happening today, can anyone imagine China tolerating criticism in a world where they are overwhelmingly dominant? You make Chamberlain look like a warmonger.

Hong Kong is gone? Pretty sure it's still there. Pretty sure they're still a productive economy. Don't think there was any mass death or destruction of infrastructure. The people are there, the jobs are there, just different leadership. How is it "gone"?

Further, how exactly is China extorting the US on trade? This is one of the less quantifiable claims Trump liked to run with. Currency manipulation maybe? But we manipulate our own currency, so wouldn't we be extorting them?

Don't get me wrong, I have many issues with China. I believe slavery is a moral wrong, therefore I MUST have issues with how China conducts their affairs. That being said, when it comes to trade and mutual benefit, the only nations that match China in mutual benefit when it comes to US trade is Mexico and Canada.

I'm not saying nobody should do anything. I'm saying it's not particularly useful for the United States to be the people taking action. The direct losers of a China takeover of Taiwan are Eurasian nations and Australia. Why aren't they dealing with it? Why the demand on US blood to deal with their issues?

We need to further than that imho.

All of our corporations and politicians can be bought out with money, and China's economy is growing faster than ours. We need to cripple them within the next 15 years or create a complete divestment that ensures our national interests.

LOL. Literally LOL. Why not just lob a few nukes while you're at it?

China is not some weak little step child you can beat on. They're a technologically advanced civilization with a full nuclear arsenal. They already have missile guidance systems, and they have a full compliment Navy, Army, and Airforce.

China has their own microchip and semiconductor manufacturers, and are the #1 producer of raw steel on the planet, dwarfing the next 10 combined.

China has some of the most advance biological and chemical weapons research.

About the only thing China lacks right now is ICBMs. But the basic argument regarding ICBMs is "You'll see them coming long before they arrive and shoot them down". They have been focused not on ICBMs, but faster and more advanced hypersonic mid-range missiles.

Most of what you're spewing about China is just stupid. They ARE a world power, with a MASSIVE economy, ADVANCED technology, and a FRIGHTENING military. What would it accomplish if we pulled out 100% of our corporations and trade? First, they would stop even pretending to follow US patent law, and quite literally everything that we've ever produced in China would continue to be produced there, just as a Chinese copy. Second, we'd likely force them into trading with less savory nations such as Iran or Russia for the natural resources they need to continue their production. Third, we'd likely be in a full fledged war that would likely go nuclear within a decade.

And why should we do all this? Because we're afraid they're going to become more of an economic superpower than we are? Because they're authoritarian? I don't know if you've looked around lately, but a third of all businesses in the US are locked down, our Nation's Capital is currently under martial law, our First Amendment right to assemble is simply gone. Pointing at China and screaming "AUTHORITARIAN" means you haven't looked out your own fucking window recently.

Paint them as Nazi's so that the world stops trading with them.

As their citizens become poor, they will protest and disturb the government.

Plant false flag attacks destroying their trade ships and colonies all over the world.

Plant far left propaganda into their media through underground networks to slowly destroy their culture.

Their entire civilization will be slaughtered in the end. Mark my words.

Um... Uygers? Forced slave labor, organ harvesting, etc.? I don't have to paint them as "Nazis". They're communist authoritarians. Nobody has stopped trading with them, nor is anyone likely to.

The majority of their citizens are already poor. Just LOL at the "protest" thing. Protests have been tried over the last 50 or 60 years in China. They end badly for the protesters. Remember, this is the nation that welds people's doors and windows shut. They aren't concerned with your so-called "human rights".

Once again, military attacks against them will spark a war that is nearly unwinnable.

Chinese internet and media is tightly controlled. Attempts to propagandize are strictly eliminated, and perpetrators tend to disappear.

If anyone in the world had been serious about taking down Communist China then they would have backed us more thoroughly in Korea when we were actually fighting the fucking Chinese.

As it stands right this moment? The US only stands to gain by supporting Chinese expansion efforts. We might lose a small amount of economic influence as China comes closer and closer to matching our economy, but so what? We're Americans. We thrive on competition. We're literally the only western nation who stands to LOSE by opposing China's efforts. IMO, if they want to take Taiwan, they can take Taiwan. If the Europeans, Japanese, Russians, and Australians opt to band together and stop said efforts, good on them. About time they did something useful and stopped begging for American troops to die for shit that's not particularly helpful to America.

We should smuggle millions of guns into Hong Kong.

To what purpose? The Chinese are not us. The military will roll in with tanks. Worse, they'll put out public messages blaming us for attempting to undermine their people, and more than likely a large percentage of those who end up with our weapons would turn them on American tourists and businesspeople.

It's a sovereign nation operating under a completely different culture ruled by a completely different style of government. If you forget outsourcing and slave wage labor for a moment though, the relationship the US has with China, economically, is literally better than any European nation. Compared to China, France should be our enemy. China welcomes our business, helps prop them up when they run into difficulties, and provides cheap land and labor and almost no barrier to success. Shitlords like France do everything they can to either directly sue or utilize the EU to sue our corporations for billions over anything they can cook up.

The EU as a whole has been conducting economic warfare against the United States for decades in an effort to compete legally where they can't compete productively. China doesn't. AND China is not willing to play by the EU's rules. So China is a developing superpower that plays by a different ruleset and is their literal neighbor. So the EU, who has placed themselves as our economic enemy, wants us to beggar ourselves by combatting China? Fuck that and fuck them. I'd rather fight Europe. The EU is closer to the Nazis than China is, and they're nearly as hostile. China's not hostile at all, and benefits US trade far more.