We agree. This is and always has been the ultimate solution. "Clean Coal" aka scrubbers that get the toxins out of the emissions so it's just CO2 and water were a great stop gap. Now though?

Short term, I expect Natural Gas will slowly grow as coal falls. Go back 15 years, Coal was #1, natural gas was a distant #2 nearly matched by nuclear. Now, we use more power than ever, yet Coal has dropped from like 33% to 20%, Natural gas rose from 25% to 37%, and there's even been a raise from 6% green power to 11% green power.

As the gas market grows, the coal market will continue to shrink. The "green" market will grow naturally without force or massive subsidy as storage methods (batteries and such) become more viable for solar and wind users looking to "exit the grid".

It'll all come in time. But let's not go full Thunberg here and attempt to demand a complete power rework. It doesn't work like that, the technology and production to back it doesn't exist. As it is developed, it'll phase in naturally.

Meantime, the best thing that can be done is not taxing the shit out of current power sources. Instead it's to focus on cleanup efforts and new technologies and practices that will help extract things like excess CO2 from the air, remove excess heavy metals from water supplies, and try to fix what thousands of years of human development has fucked up.

/rant

Disagree. Tax the shit out of current power generation to spur faster investment into renewables. Get the transition done faster and we will all be better off for it.

Solar and wind are being pushed by power companies, not people who want to live off the grid btw. They're great for dealing with day load and keeping your other sources at constant output. It's hard to have to ramp your sources up and down, so having coal at baseline and solar let's it naturally fit perfectly into the grid.

Ideally we would have nuclear at base instead of fossil fuels though

That makes sense? The power companies have been completely negligent for decades (remember Erin Brokovich?) and this is their way of not getting sued into oblivion. PG&E got out of bankruptcy about 6 months ago.

That's patently stupid. Not going to sugarcoat it here. Over 50% of US households make $50K/year or less. That's Gross Household income, NOT net income, and not single earner income. A massive tax on power is just another tax on people who already can barely afford what they have. Do you think businesses are going to foot the cost of power taxes? If so, you're high. They'll simply increase the price of products to mitigate the loss, and again, it's the bottom 80% who're going to foot the overwhelming majority of the bill.

You even suck at socialism, because you just can't math. As far as solar and wind being pushed by power companies, that's because they receive massive subsidies in establishing solar and wind farms, and subsidies for maintenance. The primary reason the majority of new homes, especially in places like Arizona, are NOT being built utilizing solar is because there's NO BENEFIT. You literally get charged premium prices on power during nighttime hours, and your excess power is sold back into the grid at 1/20th the value of what you're paying for night time power. Literally, the change in your power bill is next to nothing. You're still being raked over the coals, and that's AFTER the baseline "being part of the grid" cost.

Massively taxing power is not only stupid, it's a DIRECT ATTACK on the poor. Why the fuck would you EVER support raising the minimum wage when you're actively attempting to choke out the poor by taxing them on the basics they need just to heat their homes and cook their food?

Inconsiderate and inconsistent little shit, aren't you?

You're doing that thing again, where you just assume you know everything and have no room to learn.

I get credit per quarter off my solar system.

Show that you have something to teach, because the moment you state "tax power" you show that you hate and despise the poor, and want them all to fall into destitution.

So let's hear it, little public servant man. While you're living off our tax dollars and refusing to pay back your school debt and hanging it on the shoulders of us working folks, why is it you think we should be further taxed on power? What will it solve?

I've already exemplified EXACTLY how that cost falls squarely on the shoulders of the working class, NOT the rich or the corporations. What's your say, genius? Go on.

"You're doing that thing again, where you pretend to know some secret that doesn't exist."

Or.... you could actually want to listen instead of always assuming you know every fact and intention.

I just told you to spit some facts. Instead you're grasping super hard to justify your ignorance with personal attacks and insults.

Spew some facts or shut the fuck up. Until you came in demanding further taxes on the poor, it was a great conversation.



We budgeted it out some 10 years or so ago, and in Maricopa county, which has the most sunny days and most sunny hours in the year of anywhere in the US (yes, even including Death Valley California), it'd take 40 years to "break even" installing solar.

With some of Tesla's innovations on Solar Batteries, we could potentially break even in 15 years, but still not disconnect from the grid entirely. 15 years for a "break even" and that only assumes the battery holds up, which is unlikely. It's not a viable solution, especially for the average customer.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 2 2021 07:33pm

"If you tax power you hate the poor because the extra cost falls to them!"

is arrogant and shows you don't actually want to talk. You're making assertions and leave no room for input.

"It occurs to me that if you tax power they would raise rates, and this would disproportionately impact the poor."

brings up something and shows you aren't closed off to discussion.


So try it like a grown up instead of sounding like a 16 year old.