Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 29 2021 09:09pm)

This kind of argument is not convincing to me. If you want me to stop from doing something with my body you need a compelling reason. "It's the consequences" is not a compelling reason to stop the consequences from happening. If I put bacon on my face nobody then argues I can't get a face treatment for the acne. What is the reason I can't work to avert consequences from previous action in this case?

Quote (dro94 @ Jan 29 2021 03:48pm)

Incubating a baby doesn't equate to ownership over it in my opinion

Even less convincing is the argument that being pregnant means the baby is you. It's a disgusting assertion

Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 29 2021 09:58pm)

None of what I've said requires ownership over the fetus, or the fetus to be part of the mother.

If I want to expel something from my body, I have the right to do that absent a compelling reason to prevent me from doing it.

You might say the compelling reason is that I would kill the fetus, and the fetus is a person, but that only holds water with me after 23 weeks, and is dependent on the fetus having a right to your body that supersedes your own right to bodily autonomy.

Quote (dro94 @ Jan 29 2021 04:48pm)

Incubating a baby doesn't equate to ownership over it in my opinion

Even less convincing is the argument that being pregnant means the baby is you. It's a disgusting assertion

Quote (dro94 @ 29 Jan 2021 14:10)

Expel something? You make it sound like having a shite

Why shouldn't the foetus have a right to life unless there is a really good reason to deny it, like endangering the health of the mother

What is a morally acceptable reason to abort a foetus by saying it's part of you instead of an independent being - literally anything because it's inside you?

I mean, it's 9 months at the end of the day. You can give birth to the baby and never see it again if you don't want to. There are millions of people desperate for kids and the taxpayer would gladly subsidise the raising of children if some parents didn't want them

Quote (dro94 @ 30 Jan 2021 05:10)

Expel something? You make it sound like having a shite

Why shouldn't the foetus have a right to life unless there is a really good reason to deny it, like endangering the health of the mother

What is a morally acceptable reason to abort a foetus by saying it's part of you instead of an independent being - literally anything because it's inside you?

I mean, it's 9 months at the end of the day. You can give birth to the baby and never see it again if you don't want to. There are millions of people desperate for kids and the taxpayer would gladly subsidise the raising of children if some parents didn't want them

Quote (dro94 @ 29 Jan 2021 17:10)

Expel something? You make it sound like having a shite

Why shouldn't the foetus have a right to life unless there is a really good reason to deny it, like endangering the health of the mother

What is a morally acceptable reason to abort a foetus by saying it's part of you instead of an independent being - literally anything because it's inside you?

I mean, it's 9 months at the end of the day. You can give birth to the baby and never see it again if you don't want to. There are millions of people desperate for kids and the taxpayer would gladly subsidise the raising of children if some parents didn't want them

Quote (thesnipa @ 29 Jan 2021 19:56)

the only case where a mother doesnt consent to being pregnant or at the very least the possibility of such when engaging in sex is rape. or perhaps where she's using 1 or more forms of birth control that are supposed to have a 99%+ rate of success. perhaps a case where a man fails to pull out could apply.

i find the disconnect between sex and impregnation to be a serious moral failure of modern mankind. its as if we've given up trying to convince people they should even consider the relationship between sex and reproduction. somehow we've drawn a line between them, likely due to a sexual awakening which seeks to give women a shame free environment to have sex when in the past they've been shamed for slutty behavior and men have been applauded for it. its honestly just proof the patriarchy still steers things, because rather than question the relationship we've just handed women what men have always had.

im still pro choice, but am grossed out be the idea of a woman who's had consensual sex metaphorically telling the child she created it has no right to her body. obviously ive had a child recently, but dont think this is a new stance as a result of that. i will always believe the only guilt free abortion should be one born from rape. all others should be a serious matter for both mother and father, not written off as a matter of the mother's right. "dont want to have a kid dont have sex" doesn't work, on paper or in reality. but that doesnt excuse the overcorrection.