lol “30 years” to solve a math equation. American govt ingenuity at its finest


you literally think ‘russia’ “hacked the election” so you voted for china’s choice to ‘fix it’. way to “own the Americans”

Let's deal with the Trump Tower meeting specifically.

A Russian lawyer says that Hillary Clinton has committed crimes and that she has proof. Donald Trump Jr is willing to listen. This Russian lawyer is actively working with FusianGPS at the time. Some people have claimed she was a "Russian operative", but aside from this just not being true, it would be equally damning to her employer, FusianGPS, who were in turn employed by the DNC and the Hillary Clinton campaign. If Natalia was a "Russian operative", it would appear that she was in the active effective employ of the Democratic party. But there is nothing intrinsically wrong with meeting Natalia Veselnitskaya, aside from the fact that the meeting which occurred was a colossal waste of time, because as I said there it is incorrect to say that she is an extension of the Russian regime. She has worked with Russian oligarchs, she has worked with the Russian government, and she has worked with non-Russians (e.g. FusianGPS). The marriage of private and public is a function of the Russian economy. If we are going to claim that Natalia is "working for Putin", we may as well say that any Russian worth mentioning is working for him. And small wonder, Mueller declined to pursue the angle at all.

I'd like to deal with this piecemeal. So if you disagree with the above, please let me know. Otherwise we can accept what is real and move on to Papadopoulos and Manafort.

This post was edited by bogie160 on Dec 18 2020 07:44pm

most equations take a lifetime

Here's the full email exchange:

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/07/politics/donald-trump-jr-full-emails/

Don Jr. was ready to accept documents that incriminated Hillary, which would be handed over by a Russian government lawyer, as part of Russia and it's government's support for Mr. Trump.

Some of the characters or groups in this story have some murky, overlapping ties. Fusion GPS and the Russian lawyer had a mutual client who was implicated in some of the crimes exposed by Magnitsky. Fusion GPS and Bill Browder have fought legally over the years. This doesn't in any way mean the Russian lawyer was effectively employed by the Democratic party, because her relationship with Fusion had to do with opposing the Magnitsky Act.

This woman has devoted her career to opposing the Magnitsky Act, and she acknowledged in 2017 being in "regular contact with the Russian prosecutor general's office". Intelligence officials use people like this all the time. Stefan Halper was just a professor at Cambridge... and the FBI used him as an informant during this investigation. So it's not definitive that she was being run by some intelligence officer, but ruling that out is very silly. You also have to look at it as one piece of a consistent narrative... where people with ties to the Russian government or Russian intelligence are appealing to the Trump campaign.

If you think Don Jr. accepting a meeting with a Russian lawyer, to receive documents incriminating Hillary during a presidential campaign, as part of Russia and it's government's support for Trump, is acceptable, you live in a completely upside-down world, and the only North Star for you is defending the cult.

And if you think this incident isn't sufficient predication for an investigation, you're on the intellectual level of a 9/11 truther. No serious campaign would ever get within a mile of that meeting.

But sure, we can go through all of them. At this point though the defense just seems to be "nothing matters lulz".

This post was edited by IceMage on Dec 19 2020 08:50am

Except, as we've already discussed, the "serious" campaign was in fact working with the exact same Russian lawyer. It's a double-edged sword, if you want to consider her a "Russian government lawyer", we must accept that the DNC and Clinton campaign were working with the exact same person. But you are unable to admit what is entirely consistent with your position, because it would serially undermine your position that we can clearly demarcate between "serious" and "non-serious" campaigns.

Whether it's in Russia, the Ukraine, or China, everyone within those spheres interacts with government officials to one degree or another. Bog Iger has worked with CCP propaganda ministers and security firms in the midst of perpetrating genocide, and yet "serious" Biden considers Bob Iger worthy of consideration for ambassador to China. Natalia has worked with Russian plutocrats, government officials, and foreign firms. She is best known for lobbying against the Magnitsky Act, which she did on behalf of prominent Russian oligarchs whose business interests were primarily impacted. And she indeed used the meeting as a bait and switch for the Magnitsky Act, which contradicts and undermines your assertion that she was secretly a Russian government lawyer trying to assist the Trump campaign against Russia, because in actuality she was not sent by the Russian government and did not have proof of Clinton crimes.

But no, if Hillary Clinton committed crimes that were being pursued legally into foreign courts, it is not "off-limits", no more than crimes by Trump or his surrogates in Ukraine would be off limits, or crimes by Biden and his surrogates in China. You do not get a pass for illegal activity because a foreign government is involved in the prosecution. Either the allegations are factual or they are not.

I don't know what you're talking about. How was she working with the DNC and Clinton campaign?

There's a couple tracks here we need to recognize. There's what information would give the FBI sufficient predication to investigate something, and what that investigation ended up finding. The emails themselves with the Goldstone character is sufficient to get the FBI to investigate that meeting. That's a blinking red light to counter-intelligence officials.

Separately, you're disputing the idea that this Russian lawyer might be connected to Russian intelligence in some way. I don't really care to debate that point further... I think any intelligence official would look at her and have a reasonable suspicion that she might have those connections. I can't even remember what the Mueller report said about her, but to my recollection they didn't find anything obvious. The meeting was a dud... but we know that because it was investigated. I don't know anything about Bob Iger except he did business with China.

This is the constant spin... dirty as fuck political moves, like the Trump tower meeting or Rudy cozying up to a Russian agent in Ukraine, are reframed as just a bunch of patriotic Americans pursuing the justice that the deep state globalists are hiding.

If the Russian government has criminal activity they uncovered by Hillary, they can send it to the US government. They could even reveal it in one of the propaganda networks they own. The idea that they have to route it through a presidential campaign, and the campaign is right to try to receive that material, is completely nuts. It's a weaksauce attempt to spin what was plainly stupid and corrupt into something defensible.

He also took care of Trump's good buddy while in Federal Prison.