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Aug 26 2020 04:36pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 26 2020 05:32pm)
The question isn't really "are they xenophobic" but "does it matter that they're xenophobic."

Let's take Japan, for instance. They're pretty racist, and have very strict immigration policies.

But that doesn't really matter because they've been historically isolationist and the wealth of their country was not dependent on immigration.


Now let's take the United States.

They've got a decent amount of explicit racism, with civil rights only happening one generation ago, and lots of implicit racism such as the voter ID law that was struck down because what methods of IDs were excluded was based specifically on what races used those IDs.

But does it matter? Yes. Because unlike Japan our wealth was almost entirely tied to immigration. We built our agriculture on slavery, built our railroads on Chinese and Mexican immigration, and are ourselves immigrants taking over native land. So it does matter that we're xenophobic since we are trying to have all the benefits while treating those who immigrate like shit.


The "rules for thee, but not for me" approach can be a slippery slope. One of the requirements of legal immigration is to be able to support yourself without having to rely on the government for handouts. I seriously doubt that the vast majority of legal immigrants would fall into the "treated like shit" category. It only applies to those illegal immigrants that cannot provide for themselves and resort to suckling on the government's teet.
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Aug 26 2020 04:39pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 26 2020 06:32pm)
The question isn't really "are they xenophobic" but "does it matter that they're xenophobic."

Let's take Japan, for instance. They're pretty racist, and have very strict immigration policies.

But that doesn't really matter because they've been historically isolationist and the wealth of their country was not dependent on immigration.


Now let's take the United States.

They've got a decent amount of explicit racism, with civil rights only happening one generation ago, and lots of implicit racism such as the voter ID law that was struck down because what methods of IDs were excluded was based specifically on what races used those IDs.

But does it matter? Yes. Because unlike Japan our wealth was almost entirely tied to immigration. We built our agriculture on slavery, built our railroads on Chinese and Mexican immigration, and are ourselves immigrants taking over native land. So it does matter that we're xenophobic since we are trying to have all the benefits while treating those who immigrate like shit.


Nearly every country is built on population displacement, and whether or not immigration made sense 100 years ago has no bearing on whether it makes sense, and to what extent, it does today.

The Japanese want to preserve their culture, their violent conquest of the Ainu notwithstanding. Americans want the same thing, as do Canadians, the French, and a hundred other countries. There's nothing wrong with that.
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Aug 26 2020 04:41pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 26 2020 03:35pm)
If the Republican party was actually interested in reforming the legal immigration process, and while doing so they were saying "get in line" then nobody would call them xenophobic. (well, some crazies would, but you get what I mean)

Instead we have "get in line and do it legally" while Trump actively changes the system to make an already shitty system even worse, and when you interview Trump supporters you get shit where they say "Oh, those asylum seekers are legal immigrants under asylum laws? Trump should change that".


agree, thats garbage and needs to change
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Aug 26 2020 04:44pm
Quote (proccy @ Aug 26 2020 06:41pm)
agree, thats garbage and needs to change


Constant Immigration is completely unneccessary, and wasnt a thing for most of America's existence.

For all of our history we would let a few people in and wait a generation to let them assimilate.

The modern immigration system is a Frankenstein invented by Ted Kennedy to essentially prop our borders open to more Democratic voters.
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Aug 26 2020 04:46pm
Quote (proccy @ Aug 26 2020 05:41pm)
agree, thats garbage and needs to change


Yeah, and this isn't a new thing. There's a reason people call the American right xenophobic, and it's not for the reasons people say. It's because shit like this is all too common in their platform.

Now, the wall wouldn't even prevent immigration. Like was pointed out, if you build a 50 foot wall you don't prevent immigration, you create a market for 51 foot ladders.

Most illegal immigrants are overstayed visas and green cards. The normal flow of work immigration is that they come here, work, and usually go home, but when it's questionable if they will get back in it creates an incentive to overstay and not leave. That's where most of our immigration comes from. If you want to have less illegal immigration then reform the legal immigration system.

There's also the issue that without an incentive immigrants won't come here. Any immigration policy that wants to target illegal immigration without fixing the legal system will require targeting businesses that employ the illegal immigrants. Things like the wall are xenophobic vanity projects, not real policies.
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Aug 26 2020 04:46pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 26 2020 05:35pm)
If the Republican party was actually interested in reforming the legal immigration process, and while doing so they were saying "get in line" then nobody would call them xenophobic. (well, some crazies would, but you get what I mean)

Instead we have "get in line and do it legally" while Trump actively changes the system to make an already shitty system even worse, and when you interview Trump supporters you get shit where they say "Oh, those asylum seekers are legal immigrants under asylum laws? Trump should change that".


I can agree with this. My only issue with some asylum seekers is those who pass over much closer countries to seek asylum to try and get into the US. Bypassing the nearest asylum country shows they are more interested in economic gain instead of asylum.
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Aug 26 2020 04:48pm
Quote (TritonV8 @ Aug 26 2020 05:46pm)
I can agree with this. My only issue with some asylum seekers is those who pass over much closer countries to seek asylum to try and get into the US. Bypassing the nearest asylum country shows they are more interested in economic gain instead of asylum.


If you are already being forced to move 1000 miles, why not go another 500 for better economic opportunity? That just makes good sense if you see it from the perspective of the person making the move.
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Aug 26 2020 04:49pm
Quote (TritonV8 @ Aug 26 2020 06:46pm)
I can agree with this. My only issue with some asylum seekers is those who pass over much closer countries to seek asylum to try and get into the US. Bypassing the nearest asylum country shows they are more interested in economic gain instead of asylum.


The Democrats don't care. They just want more permanent underclass voters.
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Aug 26 2020 05:08pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 26 2020 05:48pm)
If you are already being forced to move 1000 miles, why not go another 500 for better economic opportunity? That just makes good sense if you see it from the perspective of the person making the move.


That is abusing the "asylum" laws to circumvent the legal immigration process that many other immigrants who can sustain their own living without relying on the government wait in line for. I will always prioritize America first when it comes to immigration and welcome the legal immigrants with open arms that can be a net positive to the country.
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Aug 26 2020 05:44pm
Quote (TritonV8 @ Aug 26 2020 06:08pm)
That is abusing the "asylum" laws to circumvent the legal immigration process that many other immigrants who can sustain their own living without relying on the government wait in line for. I will always prioritize America first when it comes to immigration and welcome the legal immigrants with open arms that can be a net positive to the country.


At the cost of it's moral standing I guess.

You'd be right in line with the conservatives during WW2 denying asylum to jews.
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