Quote (Thor123422 @ May 18 2020 08:27am)
I love how you read a wiki page for 5 minutes and declared it impossible.
Yep, nothing Dunning-Kruger about that.
I've already studied the background philosophies and histories for most of the theory involved. And again, it never works on a large scale.
At a small scale, plenty of things work. Even pure communism can and has worked throughout history. But you're talking primarily nomadic tribes where this was a thing. There's no form of anarchosocialism or anarchocommunism that functions to provide a supply chain that'll feed a city of 16 million people for instance. In the end, the city dwellers end up murdering the farmers who provide the food, then cry to the rest of the world for help because they start to starve.
I think part of what all these socialists, anarchists, and communists miss is that money has no intrinsic value. Money is destroyed (literally incinerated) by the federal reserve every single year to remove it from circulation and print newer bills with more "security features".
The dollar and pound were both meant to symbolize the value of a set weight of silver or gold. Rare resources that could be traded at set rates vs other goods. They, and the Euro, have evolved well past that to be representative in value between different goods, that is based on labor costs, supply costs, production costs, etc. The real problem is that it's kind of a mind-game that requires everyone play along, or it breaks down really fast. Eventually the pursuit of the dollar itself, rather than what it represents, becomes all consuming. So the person who stocks shelves at the Walmarts, or the person who provides the haircut, the finish carpenter who installs that new cabinetry and molding in that new apartment complex, they're all providing services and goods. The truck driver who's delivering the merchandise the stockers are stocking, the farmer who's growing the wheat and corn and rice and soy that are in virtually everything you eat, they're providing a good. Their time in producing the goods and services all have value, because your ability to acquire these things without making them yourself IS the value you're paying for. So when you run into a scenario like we're approaching now, or Venezuela hit a while back, and people simply don't have enough money, print more! Give a UBI! Sure! The problem is that the goods and services that that money is intended to represent hasn't changed in volume. So you've now just devalued your currency. Because the supply of toilet paper hasn't changed, nor has the demand, the toilet paper is now worth $1000, rather than $20. Because also you are giving the UBI, many may feel they're stable enough to simply quit the jobs that're lower paying, so they can go "live their lives" rather than dealing with this pathetic "supporting themselves" bullshit. Eventually, you run into a scenario where you've just completely wiped out both your production, AND the value of your currency. By attempting to philosophize the supply chain, you've just destroyed it, and nobody wants your money. You want toilet paper? Find somebody who has it and trade them something of equal value. A chicken or something. Because no matter how much money you offer them, they probably won't be able to replace that roll of toilet paper, OR buy the chicken with it.
Take a "purely democratic" business for example. Let's utilize a Walmart store, say a 150,000 square foot supercenter. So just borderline large enough to be a supercenter, but still a supercenter. You're talking 800-1000 employees total. The way things are handled now, that store is going to divvy up hours and duties the way that is best serving to the company. But you've now eliminated the central company. Okay, let's assume the supply chain is uneffected. Now, you have let's say 1000 people who are going to divvy up duties and hours. Now you all have to agree on what you're all going to do, and you're all going to make the same amount doing what you're going to do. How do you manage to even come up to a decision on duties before you all starve? Well, you take votes, right? The problem is, you've already determined you all get equal pay for duties. So what if the person pushing carts in the snow doesn't feel like they're being paid enough to do so? What if the stocker is tired and takes a nap? You've already agreed everyone receives the same pay, and they're working physically harder than the cashier. Why shouldn't they take it easy for a while? Meanwhile, the person who wanted to do accounting doesn't actually know wtf they're doing, so they're just kind of saying "yeah sure" to everything, and you either run out of money or merchandise.
Do you get where this is headed? We haven't even gotten to the violence aspect of when the vote goes against someone who says, "Nope, you cannot compel me to obey your orders" and goes apeshit. So how do you control them? The bottom line is, you can't without force. But to use force against them, you've already violated the philosophy of this so-called libertarian-socialism.
We can go at any level, government, business, whatever, and it's incredibly easy to tear it apart. It's difficult enough to manage to get people to actually work under capitalism, with the firm understanding that capitalism IS what has promoted innovation, medical advancement, technological advancement, health, longer lifespans, the ability to feed millions off a few hundred square miles of land, and so much more. It's also what has bred this faith in currencies that no longer have any realistic tie-in to anything of value, merely what we convince ourselves it's value is. Remove the capitalist aspect, and pretty soon you'll get your rations of rice, bread, butter, and sausage whether you like it or not, and if you say no, you'll get your ration of bullet. Because somebody will ALWAYS take charge when people start going hungry. Always.