Quote (fuzzy159 @ 13 May 2020 11:46)

Irony

Quote (Thor123422 @ 13 May 2020 03:34)

He got rekt in every Hillary debate and I don't think this will be much different.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 13 2020 11:34am)

He did not. These debates are not an encounter at the local private school's debate club, they're a political fight. The objective is completely different.

And while Hillary rekt Trump in the eyes of those who already hated Trump anyway, she didnt achieve any of her strategic goals beyond that.
Trump used the debates, particularly the 2nd debate, to shore up his supporters. Hillary didnt.

She didnt gain favorability during these debates, in fact, opposition against her hardened the more undecideds heard and saw of her. She wasnt able to expose Trump in a way that swayed a significant number of undecideds, despite being oh so infinitely more qualified and knowledgable. And in particular, she was never able to bait or push Trump into melting down, which was a very real possibility.

I still, to this day, cant wrap my head around the fact that Hillary didnt "go for the kill" in that 2nd debate. Trump was on the ropes after the access hollywood tape had become public 2 days earlier, senior GOP figures were calling for his withdrawal from the race, he was under immense pressure. During the debate, he was unhinged and so so close to snapping and doing or saying something that even he couldnt have come back from. But Hillary played it safe, put in a milktoast performance, and at the end of the night, the unanimous summary by pundits was "Trump stopped the freefall". This pivotal 2nd debate was definitely a strategical victory for Trump considering the circumstances.

Quote (thesnipa @ 13 May 2020 18:44)

wasnt always that way tho. and it got WAY worse in 2016.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 13 May 2020 18:54)

Look back at those debates in 2000 between Al Gore and G. W. Bush - Gore was much more smart and qualified, but he also came across like a smug, pretentious asshole, and it cost him big time.

Or take the "infringe his personal space" moment from those debates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAUcyfKESts

You can immediately tell that Gore had caught Bush with his pants down in terms of policy/substance, but then he infringes his personal space and gets put in place like a schoolboy. Gore clearly won that exchange if it had been a debate club event, but it's equally obvious that he lost this exchange in terms of body language/who the people would rather see as their next commander in chief.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 13 2020 11:54am)

Look back at those debates in 2000 between Al Gore and G. W. Bush - Gore was much more smart and qualified, but he also came across like a smug, pretentious asshole, and it cost him big time.

Or take the "infringe his personal space" moment from those debates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAUcyfKESts

You can immediately tell that Gore had caught Bush with his pants down in terms of policy/substance, but then he infringes on his personal space and gets put in place like a schoolboy. Gore clearly won that exchange if it had been a debate club event, but it's equally obvious that he lost this exchange in terms of body language/who the people would rather see as their next commander in chief.

Quote (fender @ 13 May 2020 18:55)

that's just america where optics > substance.

Quote (fuzzy159 @ 13 May 2020 17:46)

Irony

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 13 May 2020 18:59)

True, but these rules are well known. Hillary should have been prepared for that by her team.

Quote (fender @ 13 May 2020 19:06)

ofc she should have. i guess she just arrograntly assumed she'd win either way and thought she could take the 'high road' - just like she miscalculated about having to campaign in crucial swing states.