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May 12 2012 01:23pm
Quote (taekvideo @ May 12 2012 02:12pm)
As I see it, the only way this theory could explain homosexuals (rather than bisexuals) is if a single gene caused men to be attracted to other men and caused men not to be attracted to women.. in which case the 2nd effect wouldn't be eliminated through natural selection since it's attached to the same gene... but that seems too perfectly convenient and contrived to be natural and I'd need a good deal of evidence to convince me of that.



what about '' mutations ''

lmk



Quote (Voyaging @ May 12 2012 02:19pm)
Or perhaps all sexual behavior is really on a spectrum rather than a straight-up hetero/homo distinction, and the presence of this gene is powerful enough to far outshadow female attraction in male carriers.


like in diablo when you find stuff that gives immune to ****

This post was edited by Anonymou5 on May 12 2012 01:24pm
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May 12 2012 01:37pm
Quote (taekvideo @ May 12 2012 12:54pm)
Yea you aren't reading it right :P (though admittedly it is a bit of a run-on sentence)
I'm saying that whatever makes men not attracted to women would have disappeared through evolution, and the explanation in the OP (if true) would make some men bisexual but not homosexual.


If we were a society that allowed purely homosexual individuals to live alone with each other, then yes. The biological aspects of homosexuality would eventually cease.

However, it remains in the gene pool by a variety of factors. One such example is the individuals oppressed by society and fathering children even though they are legitimately gay.
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May 12 2012 01:38pm
Quote (Voyaging @ May 12 2012 01:19pm)
Or perhaps all sexual behavior is really on a spectrum rather than a straight-up hetero/homo distinction, and the presence of this gene is powerful enough to far outshadow female attraction in male carriers.


I would say that's a stretch.

So long as there are heterozygotes carrying the "gay gene" (using this for the sake of argument) and they live long enough and reproduce, then it will remain in the gene pool.
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May 12 2012 01:46pm
Quote (piddywiffle @ May 12 2012 03:38pm)
I would say that's a stretch.

So long as there are heterozygotes carrying the "gay gene" (using this for the sake of argument) and they live long enough and reproduce, then it will remain in the gene pool.


But homosexuals almost certainly reproduce less on average.
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May 12 2012 01:58pm
Quote (Voyaging @ May 12 2012 02:19pm)
Or perhaps all sexual behavior is really on a spectrum rather than a straight-up hetero/homo distinction, and the presence of this gene is powerful enough to far outshadow female attraction in male carriers.


The twin studies suggest that genetics does play some role, but not exclusively.
ie if your identical twin is homosexual then you're more likely to be homosexual as well, but not by any means guaranteed.
There are theories that prenatal hormones and of course early childhood experiences also play a role.

Not really sure how that connects to your spectrum idea but there you go :P

Quote (Anonymou5 @ May 12 2012 02:23pm)
what about '' mutations ''

lmk


Mutation creating the gene isn't the problem this theory tries to address.
The theory tries to explain why a gene that inhibits reproduction (by causing homosexuality) might not have been eliminated long ago by natural selection.

Quote (Anonymou5 @ May 12 2012 02:23pm)
like in diablo when you find stuff that gives immune to ****


:lol:

Quote (piddywiffle @ May 12 2012 02:37pm)
If we were a society that allowed purely homosexual individuals to live alone with each other, then yes.  The biological aspects of homosexuality would eventually cease.

However, it remains in the gene pool by a variety of factors.  One such example is the individuals oppressed by society and fathering children even though they are legitimately gay.


Society has been oppressing homosexuals for a relatively short time when measuring with an evolutionary scale... which drastically weakens that theory. The gene would have had to appeared very recently for that to work, and even then it would only be a partial explanation as homosexuals would still have lower rates of reproduction overall (which is sufficient for natural selection).
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May 12 2012 02:25pm
Quote (taekvideo @ May 12 2012 07:58pm)
The twin studies suggest that genetics does play some role, but not exclusively.
ie if your identical twin is homosexual then you're more likely to be homosexual as well, but not by any means guaranteed.
There are theories that prenatal hormones and of course early childhood experiences also play a role.

Not really sure how that connects to your spectrum idea but there you go :P



Mutation creating the gene isn't the problem this theory tries to address.
The theory tries to explain why a gene that inhibits reproduction (by causing homosexuality) might not have been eliminated long ago by natural selection.



:lol:



Society has been oppressing homosexuals for a relatively short time when measuring with an evolutionary scale... which drastically weakens that theory.  The gene would have had to appeared very recently for that to work, and even then it would only be a partial explanation as homosexuals would still have lower rates of reproduction overall (which is sufficient for natural selection).


As far as I know the current theory is that homosexuality is partly genetic and partly decided in the womb. Do you have any source material suggesting early childhood having influence?

Oh and the spectrum comes from Kinsey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale
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May 12 2012 03:02pm
Quote (taekvideo @ May 12 2012 01:58pm)
Society has been oppressing homosexuals for a relatively short time when measuring with an evolutionary scale... which drastically weakens that theory.  The gene would have had to appeared very recently for that to work, and even then it would only be a partial explanation as homosexuals would still have lower rates of reproduction overall (which is sufficient for natural selection).


We've only been a society for a relatively short period of time.

It's well within reason to suspect that our biological predecessors engaged in homosexual activities.

Quote (Voyaging @ May 12 2012 01:46pm)
But homosexuals almost certainly reproduce less on average.


Indeed :lol:
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May 12 2012 03:11pm
Quote (piddywiffle @ May 12 2012 04:02pm)
We've only been a society for a relatively short period of time.

It's well within reason to suspect that our biological predecessors engaged in homosexual activities.


Yes exactly.
Which is why "society oppression" (causing homosexuals to have children) doesn't really contribute to the question of why a 'gay gene' wouldn't be eliminated by natural selection (before society).
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May 12 2012 03:18pm
Quote (taekvideo @ May 12 2012 03:11pm)
Yes exactly.
Which is why "society oppression" (causing homosexuals to have children) doesn't really contribute to the question of why a 'gay gene' wouldn't be eliminated by natural selection (before society).


Because you can carry the gene, not express it (heterozygote), and have viable offspring.

I thought I mentioned this already?
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May 12 2012 03:24pm
Homosexuality has proven to be rooted in biological structures. People and the whole "choice" hypothesis is baloney.

But of course, it's baloney that people that murder are just "making bad choices" as well

the double standard.

This post was edited by RUSSiABANK on May 12 2012 03:25pm
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