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#21
Jul 31 2011 11:58am
Quote (JEB90 @ Jul 31 2011 04:36pm)
Hmmm...the satire just went right past you, huh?


Yeah it might. I never read Dante so that might be a reason.
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#22
Jul 31 2011 12:48pm
Quote (balrog66 @ Jul 31 2011 11:58am)
Yeah it might. I never read Dante so that might be a reason.


I see. The Divine Comedy is definitely worth a read. It's actually really funny and references to it pop up in a lot of other writing.
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#23
Jul 31 2011 06:18pm
Quote (JEB90 @ Jul 31 2011 01:50am)
This is the kind of scene that I think Dante would write about if he were alive today:

Demon1: Hitler is far worse than Stalin.
Demon2: No, no-Stalin all the way.
1: But Hitler killed all the Jews.
2: Yeah, well--you know what we think of Jews around here.  And Stalin was a communist.
1: Compared to a Nazi?
2: You know how Americans feels about communists.
1: Since when do they get to judge?
2: Just ask them.
1: True enough.
2: Communist, case closed.
1: But 6 million Jews....10-12 million overall.
2: Communist.
1: Sigh...
2: You know I'm right.
1: OK--but how many Stalins can dance on the head if a pin?

As for the Guderian business, here's one book that refutes what Guderian said in Panzer Leader pretty convincingly:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p375_Lutton.html


Forget Communism, the man is responsible for the deaths of at least 10-20 million people.
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#24
Jul 31 2011 06:30pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jul 31 2011 08:18pm)
Forget Communism, the man is responsible for the deaths of at least 10-20 million people.


He had to break fascism. The Soviets were determined to win. Hate on him all you want, but he was the ultimate winner of the war.
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#25
Jul 31 2011 09:35pm
Quote (Skinned @ Jul 31 2011 07:30pm)
He had to break fascism. The Soviets were determined to win.  Hate on him all you want, but he was the ultimate winner of the war.


Killing 10-20 million people warrants this?
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#26
Jul 31 2011 11:34pm
Quote (Santara @ Aug 1 2011 03:35pm)
Killing 10-20 million people warrants this?


isnt that the rationale of americans today ?
that bombing and killing innocents is ok , as long as we believe in what we are doing ?

or is a pure numbers thing ?
its only wrong once you've hit the 10 mill mark ?

This post was edited by Matao on Jul 31 2011 11:34pm
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#27
Aug 1 2011 12:47am
Quote (Skinned @ Aug 1 2011 12:30am)
He had to break fascism. The Soviets were determined to win.  Hate on him all you want, but he was the ultimate winner of the war.


His crackdowns destabilized entire regions of the USSR, left his army near leaderless, and in general paved the way for the successful Nazi advance. Many in the Ukraine were ready to welcome the Germans as liberators, that is, until the Germans squandered their gain by treating them just as harshly.

Stalin nearly destroyed the USSR by his repeated blunders, its enormous resources, huge population, and fanatical nationalism won the war for it more than he did.
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#28
Aug 1 2011 12:51am
Quote (bogie160 @ Jul 31 2011 06:18pm)
Forget Communism, the man is responsible for the deaths of at least 10-20 million people.


Seriously, do you people check your sense of humor at the door on the way into the forum?
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#29
Aug 1 2011 03:18pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Aug 1 2011 02:47am)
His crackdowns destabilized entire regions of the USSR, left his army near leaderless, and in general paved the way for the successful Nazi advance. Many in the Ukraine were ready to welcome the Germans as liberators, that is, until the Germans squandered their gain by treating them just as harshly.

Stalin nearly destroyed the USSR by his repeated blunders, its enormous resources, huge population, and fanatical nationalism won the war for it more than he did.


You don't think being led by a "Man of Steel" helped with the fanatical nationalism?
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