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Dec 8 2023 04:07pm
Quote (RedFromWinter @ Dec 6 2023 08:11am)
Elon is overrated, his cult views him as some kind of technological savior, yet his products are unaffordable for majority of working Americans even majority of his own cult. For example Starlink is either $90/mo or $120/mo in USA which while most places in the USA offer comparable internet plans near $50. The Cybertruck was advertised with reasonable price tiers, now post-delivery the prices are out of range for self-financed US workers. The most affordable EV they sell is arguably the Model Y right now between price cut and tax incentive, yet that still is notorious for needing premature battery replacements.


Avg. new vehicle price today for non EV's is 48k, in line or actually more expensive vs cheapest Tesla model.

I don't think the Cybertruck was ever advertised as an everyday layman car. It's a premium product. Trucks in general aren't cheap though, think avg. new truck sold in 2022 cost almost 60k. With new products I think it's expected to pay a premium. I personally wouldn't spend 80k on it but as production ramps up as sales grow and inflation continues to eat away at the dollar, i don't really think the gap between in prices between Teslas vs non Teslas will grow.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Dec 8 2023 04:07pm
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Dec 8 2023 04:22pm
Elon is pretty clearly a case of rich guy failing upward.

Zip2 failed massively and was bought out in the dotcom boom despite being a jumbled mess with no actual value.

X.com failed and was merged with the company that would go on to be paypal, and by all accounts the x.com code base was atrocious and added nothing of value. Musk almost drove it into the ground as the newly appointed CEO and was removed within 6 months. He contributed nothing of value to Paypal, but held his shares so he got even richer with the IPO.

Used his paypal money to distribute into a dozen other companies.

Tesla already had a prototype and competent leadership. Musk acted as a hype man and fraudster to make sure money kept coming in until they could get manufacturing going. Even then has only posted profits because of extremely generous subsidy programs.

SpaceX runs almost wholly independently of Musk and only survives off extremely generous government contracts practically guaranteeing they can't fail.

Boring company builds tunnels at about market value, and sells hype to cities that will never materialize to keep in business.

Cut the work force of Twitter by 75% and went on to alienate 90% of his advertising revenue, so even though they cut costs by likely over half, they're still not profitable.


Musk cultivated a public image to keep everybody on board with funding his projects, but every time there's a project in which he is personally involved in the operations of the porject it does worse as a result. If he stuck to being a hype man and committing light fraud when he needed funding he'd probably still be loved by the public.
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Dec 8 2023 04:35pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 8 2023 05:07pm)
Avg. new vehicle price today for non EV's is 48k, in line or actually more expensive vs cheapest Tesla model.

I don't think the Cybertruck was ever advertised as an everyday layman car. It's a premium product. Trucks in general aren't cheap though, think avg. new truck sold in 2022 cost almost 60k. With new products I think it's expected to pay a premium. I personally wouldn't spend 80k on it but as production ramps up as sales grow and inflation continues to eat away at the dollar, i don't really think the gap between in prices between Teslas vs non Teslas will grow.


It was advertised as a truck when announced with the $39k single motor setup. Early marketing hyped low end torque, three options for motors, lots of towing capacity, ultra durability, stained steel instead of paint, etc. I'm not at all surprised by the actual price and delays. It's typical Elon to miss product launches and Houdini the prices. Immediately after Cybertruck delivery event he is back at hyping a budget $25k model 2 that will blow our minds. I expect this will hit market in 8 years at $38k per Elons pattern
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Dec 8 2023 06:14pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Dec 8 2023 02:22pm)
Elon is pretty clearly a case of rich guy failing upward.

Zip2 failed massively and was bought out in the dotcom boom despite being a jumbled mess with no actual value.

X.com failed and was merged with the company that would go on to be paypal, and by all accounts the x.com code base was atrocious and added nothing of value. Musk almost drove it into the ground as the newly appointed CEO and was removed within 6 months. He contributed nothing of value to Paypal, but held his shares so he got even richer with the IPO.

Used his paypal money to distribute into a dozen other companies.

Tesla already had a prototype and competent leadership. Musk acted as a hype man and fraudster to make sure money kept coming in until they could get manufacturing going. Even then has only posted profits because of extremely generous subsidy programs.

SpaceX runs almost wholly independently of Musk and only survives off extremely generous government contracts practically guaranteeing they can't fail.

Boring company builds tunnels at about market value, and sells hype to cities that will never materialize to keep in business.

Cut the work force of Twitter by 75% and went on to alienate 90% of his advertising revenue, so even though they cut costs by likely over half, they're still not profitable.


Musk cultivated a public image to keep everybody on board with funding his projects, but every time there's a project in which he is personally involved in the operations of the porject it does worse as a result. If he stuck to being a hype man and committing light fraud when he needed funding he'd probably still be loved by the public.


I see.

So what about his championing of free speech? He allows a lot of viewpoints on X, some of which controversial. Do you think he does this out of principle or he has some kind of an agenda?

This post was edited by JessiWan on Dec 8 2023 06:20pm
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Dec 8 2023 08:01pm
REEEEEEEEE :D
elon going to bring back alex jones
THE INTERVIEW - IN PERSON - IT'S HERE - AND SOMETHING BIGGER IS GOING TO HAPPEN VERY SOON!
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Dec 8 2023 10:09pm
Quote (JessiWan @ Dec 8 2023 06:14pm)
I see.

So what about his championing of free speech? He allows a lot of viewpoints on X, some of which controversial. Do you think he does this out of principle or he has some kind of an agenda?


If he were actually interested in championing free speech he wouldn't constantly ban people who criticize him.

He just wants positive attention. He thinks he can cater to the right wingers by "championing free speech", so he virtue signals free speech while banning people he doesn't like.
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Dec 9 2023 04:36am
Quote (RedFromWinter @ Dec 8 2023 05:35pm)
It was advertised as a truck when announced with the $39k single motor setup. Early marketing hyped low end torque, three options for motors, lots of towing capacity, ultra durability, stained steel instead of paint, etc. I'm not at all surprised by the actual price and delays. It's typical Elon to miss product launches and Houdini the prices. Immediately after Cybertruck delivery event he is back at hyping a budget $25k model 2 that will blow our minds. I expect this will hit market in 8 years at $38k per Elons pattern


Mate pretty much all car markers have missed their goals of rolling out various EVs, especially anything that’s truly appealing to clients.

Look at GM, Ford, the euro car makers etc. EVs are still new in this market and you’re holding Tesla to higher standards comparatively

I’ve heard EV talks from those companies for the last 5 years. I live in a medium sized city and if I stood at the busiest corner counting all the non Tesla EVs I’d literally probably have single digits from hours of being there

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Dec 9 2023 04:40am
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Dec 9 2023 07:12am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 9 2023 04:36am)
Mate pretty much all car markers have missed their goals of rolling out various EVs, especially anything that’s truly appealing to clients.

Look at GM, Ford, the euro car makers etc. EVs are still new in this market and you’re holding Tesla to higher standards comparatively

I’ve heard EV talks from those companies for the last 5 years. I live in a medium sized city and if I stood at the busiest corner counting all the non Tesla EVs I’d literally probably have single digits from hours of being there


Tesla is a senior EV manufacturing company competing with entry-level EV manufacturing startups in big auto factories. I hold them to at least their own standard if not higher than their competitors making junk like F150 Lightning and the like.
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Dec 9 2023 12:31pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 8 Dec 2023 16:22)
Elon is pretty clearly a case of rich guy failing upward.

Zip2 failed massively and was bought out in the dotcom boom despite being a jumbled mess with no actual value.

X.com failed and was merged with the company that would go on to be paypal, and by all accounts the x.com code base was atrocious and added nothing of value. Musk almost drove it into the ground as the newly appointed CEO and was removed within 6 months. He contributed nothing of value to Paypal, but held his shares so he got even richer with the IPO.

Used his paypal money to distribute into a dozen other companies.

Tesla already had a prototype and competent leadership. Musk acted as a hype man and fraudster to make sure money kept coming in until they could get manufacturing going. Even then has only posted profits because of extremely generous subsidy programs.

SpaceX runs almost wholly independently of Musk and only survives off extremely generous government contracts practically guaranteeing they can't fail.

Boring company builds tunnels at about market value, and sells hype to cities that will never materialize to keep in business.

Cut the work force of Twitter by 75% and went on to alienate 90% of his advertising revenue, so even though they cut costs by likely over half, they're still not profitable.


Musk cultivated a public image to keep everybody on board with funding his projects, but every time there's a project in which he is personally involved in the operations of the porject it does worse as a result. If he stuck to being a hype man and committing light fraud when he needed funding he'd probably still be loved by the public.


+1 Pretty much this. I'd add that his "Mars" project is total delusion and that many scientist have called his bluff because he makes it seem like "he knows" what "WE or the people he convinces to go on that initial journey will encounter".

Total hype guy as mentioned. I personally invested in Tesla/Dogecoin after hearing his 1st podcast on Joe Rogan and it made me a lot of money but I did it because he "sounded very smart and confident" and I knew BIG money was already behind him. He basically took advantage of the "Reddit kids" and that generation convincing them that his projects were "good for the planet" and are the "only alternative".

I personally think he named his company "Tesla" because he could never himself be that great of an inventive mind. He also mainlined technology that Nikola Tesla wanted to give to the world for free(Main reason Nikola never received praise until long after his death)

He is from South Africa but you never see him helping out the area where he was raised. What you do see are his Lithium mines causing more toxicity/pollution then his "cars" supposedly "save".

He made it seem like he invented the FIRST electric car when in reality he just made a "sports car" and slapped technology that already pre-existed on it.

He said he'd write a check "that day" to "solve world hunger" if "they" could explain how they would do it. How boastful and ignorant could you be? Instead of just writing the check RIGHT THEN AND THERE he just faded into obscurity on that one.

So instead of helping potentially 10's of thousands of people suffering in his home country/continent he "bought Twitter" like a "cool kid at the candy store" and dangled it in front of his "puppetmasters" like, "Did I do good daddy?"

&&& now the same rich people who bought his 100k toy(electric car) are realizing that Porsche, Mercedes, BMW and basically every automaker can make a 100k electric car that LOOKS BETTER INSIDE AND OUT then a "Tesla" and that's why Tesla's EV sales plummeted and why I sold my Tesla stock back when it was over $1,000 a share. I had bought in twice when it was $150-$225 and I knew his hype was about to evaporate. Dogecoin too. I saw it skyrocket to the moon and knew it could never continue upward.

I could probably go on but what's the point lol :rofl:

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Dec 9 2023 12:51pm
He’s getting a lot of hate and I don’t have a strong opinion on him one way or another but I will ask

Has anyone had experience with Tesla auto drive and also Waymo self driving?

This is still probably the biggest bull case for Tesla, reasonably priced EV giving the company a ridiculous amount of raw data. That data is intellectual property that it is difficult to objectify

I have personal experience with Tesla self driving for about a week, about a year ago. I was pleasantly surprised, this was in suburban streets.

You can argue he isn’t the mastermind for it and he’s replaceable and that’s valid, I’m more taking about Tesla as opposed to Elon

Spacex is also unarguably a success story. Although as Thor said Elon doesn’t play a huge role there anymore - although he was instrumental in getting the donors to get it to the position it’s in now. Hype men are unironically still needed in society

This post was edited by Bazi on Dec 9 2023 01:03pm
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