20 replies and not a single one on-topic. Usual offenders bending themselves into pretzels to avoid discussing the elephant in the room.

Back on-topic:If I would play the devil's advocate here and try to defend Canadian and UK decision to protect 14th Galicia members I would argue that straight up after the war there were millions of ex-SS members with various degrees of guilt.

The most notorious leaders were tried and executed. Regular soldiers, NSDAP members as well as civilians were forced to go through denazification process (there is a whole wikipedia page about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification). The problem with Galizia 14th was that they had nowhere to go. If returned to the USSR they would be tried and most probably big chunk of them executed as Soviets definitely had all the proof and living witnesses to tie individual members to the atrocities committed. See eg the story of Russian RONA Waffen SS member Antonina who was uncovered 35 years after, tried and summarily executed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonina_Makarova ).

So Canadians particularly had a dilemma and they decided to provide legal grounds to investigate the crimes of 14th Galizia through Deschenes comission to allow Waffen SS members to settle in Canada. The report is quite something, but you can read it here (https://publications.gc.ca/site/eng/471452/publication.html) and make up your own mind whether that "investigation" was fair. My assumption is at the time - Canadians were in the middle of a Cold War with the Soviets and were not really looking forward to help USSR with any political wins. They also well knew that as mentioned above majority of the people they would return to USSR would probably be either jailed or executed so on humanitarian grounds they allowed them to settle.

This post was edited by Malopox on Oct 6 2023 05:49am

A just decision for Canada would be to admit that this was an oversight and a mistake of the past and open the names behind the cases investigated.
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/2015149/trudeau-looking-carefully-at-releasing-names-of-ex-nazis-in-canada

To quote Deschenes report quality, here is a few screenshots of how they investigated individual cases:

https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2014/bcp-pco/CP32-52-1986-2-eng.pdf

It is a mega gotcha. Did you not read the OP?



Imagine being this delusional

edited

This post was edited by Malopox on Oct 6 2023 08:36am

these stories are nothing but the brain melting simplification of WW2.

we used to recognize that the elite nazis were the legit evil empire, conducting experiments and committing genocide. and that most soldiers knew not what happened nor supported it, many were pressed into service, etc.

now its become all 1930-40s non-jewish germans were nazis, all nazis were equally evil.

now im sure the UK absorbed some serious sickos, look at operation paperclip. but this historical redwashing is not education, its dumbing down a complex timeline.

being sensitive of Nazi's in the Ukraine but nowhere else is pretty stupid.

There definitely were regular soldiers who didn't really know, but there were also a lot of normal soldiers who did know and did the deeds themselves.

There was actually a lot of research on those normal soldiers who had a day job running a labor camp and murdering jews. They found they were remarkably normal.

Fact is, the average person is capable of doing absolutely horrendous things and then going home to their wife and thinking they're a morally upstanding citizen.

Really shows how little capacity for introspection the average person has.

and we need to keep this in mind as conservatives continue to go down the fascist rabbit hole. There is no such thing as a silent majority that will stop them. The silent majority will stay silent and when asked to help, will do so with very little reservations as long as you've set the stage properly.

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Oct 6 2023 11:49am

right, my point is when you hear "nazi" do you think "well thats only really saying they're evil if they worked at a camp". those who worked at the camps knew, but there's also cases of people who lived nearby who had no idea what really was going on outside of detaining jews.

we've simplified "nazis" to mean all evil and all as evil, with only really allowing exceptions for more evil from the VERY high up or odd cases of guards who were especially heinous. the reality is a high percent of german ww2 soldiers were, shockingly enough, fighting a world war. not loading up jews into gas chambers. and towards the end of the war a lot of the soldiers were pressed into service as it went bad for germany.

Honestly if you were part of a group that rounded up and shipped off jews, I have very little sympathy even if you didn't technically know they were being murdered.

I also don't give any leeway to confederate soldiers who weren't fighting for slavery explicitly, and US soldiers who rounded up and shipped off natives to steal their land.

So while this is true, I'm kinda meh about people making that mistake. We're a decade or two from literally all of them being dead so I can't see any real capacity for this to matter.

sympathy, sure. but im speaking in context of 2 recent stories. 8k "nazis" being imported to the UK and the canadian "nazi" who was applauded. was he a nazi, or a "nazi"? i could care less for sympathy, i just want to know if i should hate him/them or not.