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Sep 14 2023 02:48pm
More people are killed each year by extreme climate change events.
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Sep 14 2023 03:37pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Sep 14 2023 02:34pm)
Had Obama gone into Syria and removed Assad, would the excess deaths caused poor building code in Syria after the earthquake also be the US' fault?


Qaddafi was a staunch socialist whos Jamahiriya was based on public works with a particular focus on irrigation, water pipelines and dams. Since the Arab Spring, Qaddafi's greatest achievement in the "Great Man-Made River", the largest aqueduct / pipeline system in the world, has fallen into neglect and dysfunction with something like a third of the wells already dismantled and others being seized by the rival factions. Not helped by NATO bombing important parts of its infrastructure that never got replaced, because we're the good guys. Assad didn't build his regime on enforcing strict architectural codes to prevent earthquake deaths any more than Erdogan did, funny that.

Its a pretty direct line from "America kills the guy who famously championed civil engineering projects" to "failure of civil engineering projects from neglect causes the deaths of tens of thousands of people". Also that whole part where their country is a total shithole in general thanks to Obama
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Sep 14 2023 04:10pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Sep 14 2023 10:37pm)
Qaddafi was a staunch socialist whos Jamahiriya was based on public works with a particular focus on irrigation, water pipelines and dams. Since the Arab Spring, Qaddafi's greatest achievement in the "Great Man-Made River", the largest aqueduct / pipeline system in the world, has fallen into neglect and dysfunction with something like a third of the wells already dismantled and others being seized by the rival factions. Not helped by NATO bombing important parts of its infrastructure that never got replaced, because we're the good guys. Assad didn't build his regime on enforcing strict architectural codes to prevent earthquake deaths any more than Erdogan did, funny that.

Its a pretty direct line from "America kills the guy who famously championed civil engineering projects" to "failure of civil engineering projects from neglect causes the deaths of tens of thousands of people". Also that whole part where their country is a total shithole in general thanks to Obama


Aren't we talking about a dam built in 1970? So nothing to do with "Gadhafi's greatest achievement" as you put it, can't even believe that is a phrase but here we are.

A 53 year old dam. Or two dams afaik. And how long were people building houses in the potential flood plain? Are those houses of sound engineering?
I'd suggest the answers are, a long time and frankly no.

I can agree the infrastructure in Libya has suffered from the lack of stable government; The stretch I see here is blaming the tragedy solely on the US as if there are not multiple other mitigating factors. Not least an unprecedented amount of rainfall in a short period of time,

"Libya’s National Meteorological Centre said that the storm reached a peak in northeastern Libya on 10 September, with strong winds of 70 - 80 km/h. This caused communications interruption, the fall of electricity towers and trees. Torrential rains of between 150 - 240 mm caused flash floods in several cities, including Al-Bayda, which recorded the highest daily rainfall rate of 414.1 mm (from 10 Sep 8am to 11 Sep 8am). The National Meteorological Centre said this was a new rainfall record.
Entire neighborhoods in Derna disappeared, along with their residents swept away by water after two ageing dams collapsed making the situation catastrophic and out of control, said the Libyan meteorological service."

So at bold, no. That isn't true. Is there a factor of blame on the US, yes. Is it the direct cause. No.

Its important to remember Libyans killed Gaddafi and at a point it falls on people to govern and organise themselves; And I think that is an evident problem in many countries formerly part of the Ottoman empire in North Africa and the Middle east. They lack the state institutions and democratic structures to succeed post dictatorship.

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Sep 14 2023 05:54pm
lol @ guy thinking one military intervention is literal genocide while white knighting for another

But damn is that number high, last I read about it death toll was around 1k a day or two ago. Obviously dam maintenance and a rapid response from the government would have lowered that death count.

Quote
Speaking to reporters in Geneva on Thursday, WMO Secretary-General Petteri Taalas said Libya’s main challenge in managing the aftermath of the floods that have killed thousands and displaced tens of thousands was that the governing was “not functioning normally”.

“If they would have been a normally operating meteorological service, they could have issued a warning,” he said.

“The emergency management authorities would have been able to carry out evacuation of the people. And we could have avoided most of the human casualties,” Taalas added.


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/14/functioning-weather-service-may-have-prevented-libya-flood-casualties-wmo

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Sep 14 2023 06:00pm
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Sep 15 2023 05:07am
I haven't seen anyone send these people thoughts and prayers yet... sus
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Sep 15 2023 06:11am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 15 2023 12:54am)
lol @ guy thinking one military intervention is literal genocide while white knighting for another

But damn is that number high, last I read about it death toll was around 1k a day or two ago. Obviously dam maintenance and a rapid response from the government would have lowered that death count.



https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/14/functioning-weather-service-may-have-prevented-libya-flood-casualties-wmo


Build a bridge and get over. Gaddafi was a tyrant. Zelensky is an elected president.

Stop homogenizing conflicts and leaders as if they are exactly the same.
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Sep 15 2023 07:25am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 15 Sep 2023 14:11)
Build a bridge and get over. Gaddafi was a tyrant. Zelensky is an elected president.

Stop homogenizing conflicts and leaders as if they are exactly the same.


Good thing NATO defensively got rid of him so people of Lybia can now prosper.
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Sep 15 2023 07:37am
Quote (Goomshill @ Sep 14 2023 03:14pm)
This just in: a hostile foreign invasion toppling a government results in the loss of the benefits of government service and protection to the people of that country, including the maintenance and replacement of critical infrastructure.
Not to mention zoning and regulation to keep people from building in floodplains in the first place.

If Alice operates the anti-bear-attack device that keeps wild bears from mauling Bob to death, and Charlie comes along and shoots Alice to death, then who's fault is it when a bear comes along and mauls Bob to death? The bear's?





It's Bob's fault. He should know better than to play with bears. ^^

This post was edited by Ghot on Sep 15 2023 07:37am
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Sep 15 2023 08:32am
Interview with a Libyan civil engineer on the ground.

One thing that stuck out is he says that in 2010-11 government ordered to build a new dam but after 2011 those plans fell apart. Guess when Qaddafi and his government was defensively deposed? In 2011.




This post was edited by ofthevoid on Sep 15 2023 08:34am
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Sep 15 2023 08:37am
completely destroyed once again, lol

Better stop shilling for "defensive" military powers that make a mess everywhere they show up
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