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Mar 31 2023 05:51am
Quote (Djunior @ 31 Mar 2023 12:56)


Fender did several topics like so what ? (thoughts and prayers)

"Funny that people like you and " .

Now answer to my question, and don't dodge: Am I Fender ? Get good digging 10 years old topic now.

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Mar 31 2023 06:07am
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 30 2023 03:47pm)
well Matthew Shepard could be either a good or bad example because it can show how hate crime prosecutions could go wrong, if they had existed at the time. When the evidence points to it being a crime motivated by drugs and greed, and the gay angle just cynically applied after the fact by a desperate defense. There's some evidence they just wanted to torture him to reveal his stash, then concocted the gay panic defense try to build doubt.
which is also why it could be a good example- is that killing made any less heinous if its a product of avarice and dehumanization, than targeted based on sexual orientation? If someone beats you to death for $50 in your wallet, versus beats you to death for kissing your boyfriend in public, is one inherently worse than the other?

I don't mean that as a rhetorical question, the answer is no.
I don't think an ideologically motivated murder is more or less heinous than any other. You can build cases with degrees of mitigating factors that we can sympathize with, like the trial in MN right now for a woman who killed the abusive boyfriend who was keeping her locked up- but that kind of mitigation should likewise be agnostic. Heck, in that case, the woman got the book thrown at her (25 years in prison) by the same judge who presided over the george floyd case, and I'm figuring it has to do something with her being a white woman who shot a black man. At least she's getting a new trial. That's where legislative intent collides with prosecutorial reality. We start saying that we think one type of murder is more heinous than another, and suddenly the thumb has been placed upon the scales of justice and innocent people get convicted and guilty people go free.

Murder is murder, violent crime is violent crime, we should stop infringing on civil liberties to get convictions, but be more draconian once we do.


i just plain disagree. motivation for a crime can lower or raise the severity of the crime itself. same goes for an abused woman who murders the man, she shouldnt be let off but shouldnt be charged normally either. its all a matter of evidence to charge correctly, so i maintain its an issue of execution not logic.
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Mar 31 2023 06:17am
Quote (thesnipa @ Mar 31 2023 07:07am)
i just plain disagree. motivation for a crime can lower or raise the severity of the crime itself. same goes for an abused woman who murders the man, she shouldnt be let off but shouldnt be charged normally either. its all a matter of evidence to charge correctly, so i maintain its an issue of execution not logic.


Is there a scenario you can construct where motivation for a crime should mitigate culpability, that isn't a mitigating factor that could be isolated from an ideologically agnostic factor?
If a woman is abused and still responsible for murder we maybe say she deserves lesser charges, but that's because of factors that aren't due to a difference in viewpoint

If someone goes out and shoot up a school because they're motivated by radical trans ideology and hatred of christians, and someone else goes out and shoots up a school because they're just a violent sociopath who wants to kill people, there's no good reason why one should be worse than the other. They are both committing the same actions, with the same murderous intent, with no mitigating circumstances, same consequences. I don't see why I should look on sociopathic murders more favorably than racist murderers.
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Mar 31 2023 06:33am
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 31 2023 07:17am)
Is there a scenario you can construct where motivation for a crime should mitigate culpability, that isn't a mitigating factor that could be isolated from an ideologically agnostic factor?
If a woman is abused and still responsible for murder we maybe say she deserves lesser charges, but that's because of factors that aren't due to a difference in viewpoint

If someone goes out and shoot up a school because they're motivated by radical trans ideology and hatred of christians, and someone else goes out and shoots up a school because they're just a violent sociopath who wants to kill people, there's no good reason why one should be worse than the other. They are both committing the same actions, with the same murderous intent, with no mitigating circumstances, same consequences. I don't see why I should look on sociopathic murders more favorably than racist murderers.


You just laid out how the intent is different.

i think the easiest hypothetical example is 2 cases of premeditated murder. man A has a cheating wife, he knows the man who's sleeping with his wife, he plans and murders the man. man B hates black people, he plans to kill a black person because he hates them all, drive around until he finds one and murders them. both could be charged as premeditated murder, one knew the victim, the other targeted a member of a group randomly.

the base logic is targeting someone based on their actions, the other is targeting them based on who or what they are. if you sleep with a man's wife that doesnt deserve a death sentence, but you did act and do something. man B's victim was just born black. but both could be charged equally.
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Mar 31 2023 07:03am
Quote (Meanwhile @ Mar 31 2023 01:51pm)
Fender did several topics like so what ? (thoughts and prayers)

"Funny that people like you and ^fender" .

Now answer to my question, and don't dodge: Am I Fender ? Get good digging 10 years old topic now.


Fender and you are similar hence "people like you and fender"

Where did I say you are fender?

The topics are from late 2022 by the way so you're only 9.5 years off. Try harder
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Mar 31 2023 07:12am
Quote (Djunior @ 31 Mar 2023 15:03)
Fender and you are similar hence "people like you and fender"

Where did I say you are fender?

The topics are from late 2022 by the way so you're only 9.5 years off. Try harder


Want to see magics regarding this topic ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting

Don't dodge:

Quote (Djunior @ 31 Mar 2023 11:33)
Funny that people like you and ^fender are not posting "Just another day in America" topics when the shooter is trans ^_^

Quote (Djunior @ 31 Mar 2023 12:56)


For the second time : Am I Fender ? Answer to me please.
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Mar 31 2023 07:17am
Quote (Meanwhile @ Mar 31 2023 03:12pm)
Want to see magics regarding this topic ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting

Don't dodge:




For the second time : Am I Fender ? Answer to me please.


Follow some English lessons if you don't understand what was said. I never said you are fender
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Mar 31 2023 07:31am
Quote (Djunior @ 31 Mar 2023 15:17)
Follow some English lessons if you don't understand what was said. I never said you are fender


So why are you posting this and adressing me with this crap ?

Quote (Djunior @ 31 Mar 2023 11:33)
Funny that people like you and ^fender are not posting "Just another day in America" topics when the shooter is trans ^_^

Quote (Djunior @ 31 Mar 2023 12:56)


Is it some kind of deep Dyslexia ? Do you need help ? I am not your doctor.

And this ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting
vs
This topic title

Another day in america or another turd title ? Or maybe both ?

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Mar 31 2023 07:38am
Quote (Meanwhile @ Mar 31 2023 03:31pm)
So why are you posting this and adressing me with this crap ?




Is it some kind of deep Dyslexia ? Do you need help ? I am not your doctor.

And this ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting
vs
This topic title

Another day in america or another turd title ? Or maybe both ?


You don't understand what was said? Perhaps you need to follow some English lessons like I suggested before.

Member
Posts: 66,666
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Mar 31 2023 07:40am
Quote (Djunior @ 31 Mar 2023 15:38)
You don't understand what was said? Perhaps you need to follow some English lessons like I suggested before.


Dare to have an argument regarding the topic now. And good luck.
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