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Jun 10 2018 09:12am
Quote (EndlessSky @ Jun 10 2018 10:09am)
Drumpf is finished episode 1337


Endless defends whatever Trump does episode 9000.
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Jun 10 2018 09:16am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 10 Jun 2018 16:55)
trump isnt failing at diplomacy, in the sense of "not getting it done despite his best efforts". he's simply giving a shit about diplomacy, he doesnt even try.

and you're right: the american voters knew this before they elected trump. they wanted less diplomatic, politically correct nice-talk and a more rude, more direct exploitation of america's power.


he could be so much smarter about exposing the hypocrisy of the g7 group, but its great that somebody is NOT saying yes to everything and stops the disgusting moral imperialism of macron and merkel
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Jun 10 2018 09:17am
Quote (IceMage @ Jun 10 2018 11:12am)
Endless defends whatever Trump does episode 9000.



“Major scandal” :rofl:
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Jun 10 2018 09:18am
Quote (EndlessSky @ Jun 10 2018 10:17am)
“Major scandal” :rofl:


Not an argument.
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Jun 10 2018 09:21am
Quote (IceMage @ 10 Jun 2018 15:02)


It's like every week or two there's an incident that in any normal presidency would be a major scandal... but we'll all just move on because we're so numb to it.


Noam Chomsky had a fun take on this. He said Trump puts on a show, he's an entertainer. He does all this outrageous shit to grab headlines so that he can push through the truly heinous shit behind the scenes. While he's doing ridiculous and silly things to the cameras he's actually some kind of evil genius who wants to fuck the poor over and empower big business.

I don't really think that's true. I think Trump is easily manipulated by people who take advantage of the crazy 24 hour news cycle, the abandonment of truth and the partisan rift brought about by his style of campaigning and presidency to do all this heinous shit without it being to broadly noticed. The tax bill being the most obvious example. It was reported on sure... but the reports were so different depending on what news station you listened to that it's hard for the average, ignorant American to discern what the bill was actually about. It comes down to them basically believing whatever they want. If they like Trump it's a great bill and if they hate him it's awful. Never mind how the content will actually affect them.

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Jun 10 2018 09:21am
Quote (Thor123422 @ 10 Jun 2018 16:59)
Maybe the American people wanted somebody to fail at diplomacy, but call a spade a spade. He's failing at one of the fundamental jobs of the executive.


trump is redefining the job of the executive. trump's mantra basically is: "as the american president, it is not my job to strengthen and increase america's reputation in the world, it's not my job to score high ratings from the media or be well-liked by as many foreign leaders as possible - no, it's my job to strengthen and increase the wealth and safety of the american people."

essentially, people like you and icemage would like an obama-clone as president, at least when it comes to personal conduct and to the way of interacting with foreign leaders. but trump got voted into the white house exactly because he promised to break from this tradition, to be the opposite of obama. you're free to dislike it, to criticize it - but please finally acknowledge that his voters really do want him to act according to the"america first"-doctrine.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jun 10 2018 09:22am
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Jun 10 2018 09:24am
Quote (IceMage @ Jun 10 2018 11:18am)
Not an argument.


Quote (IceMage @ Jun 10 2018 11:18am)
It's like every week or two there's an incident that in any normal presidency would be a major scandal...


Lol
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Jun 10 2018 09:27am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jun 10 2018 08:21am)
trump is redefining the job of the executive. trump's mantra basically is: "as the american president, it is not my job to strengthen and increase america's reputation in the world, it's not my job to score high ratings from the media or be well-liked by as many foreign leaders as possible - no, it's my job to strengthen and increase the wealth and safety of the american people."

essentially, people like you and icemage would like an obama-clone as president, at least when it comes to personal conduct and to the way of interacting with foreign leaders. but trump got voted into the white house exactly because he promised to break from this tradition, to be the opposite of obama. you're free to dislike it, to criticize it - but please finally acknowledge that his voters really do want him to act according to the"america first"-doctrine.


It's America first in words but won't be a benefit with the consequences to those hollow slogans

much like Republican words vs consequences when it comes to other things like the economy being a major one
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Jun 10 2018 09:29am
Quote (Scaly @ Jun 10 2018 10:21am)
Noam Chomsky had a fun take on this. He said Trump puts on a show, he's an entertainer. He does all this outrageous shit to grab headlines so that he can push through the truly heinous shit behind the scenes. While he's doing ridiculous and silly things to the cameras he's actually some kind of evil genius who wants to fuck the poor over and empower big business.

I don't really think that's true. I think Trump is easily manipulated by people who take advantage of the crazy 24 hour news cycle, the abandonment of truth and the partisan rift brought about by his style of campaigning and presidency to do all this heinous shit without it being to broadly noticed. The tax bill being the most obvious example. It was reported on sure... but the reports were so different depending on what news station you listened to that it's hard for the average, ignorant American to discern what the bill was actually about. It comes down to them basically believing whatever they want. If they like Trump it's a great bill and if they hate him it's awful. Never mind how the content will actually affect them.


I don't think either is true. Trump is who he is... he is an unhinged person who can't help himself. There's no 4d chess... every day he's winging it.

Quote (EndlessSky @ Jun 10 2018 10:24am)
Lol


Again, not an argument.
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Jun 10 2018 09:31am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jun 10 2018 09:21am)
trump is redefining the job of the executive. trump's mantra basically is: "as the american president, it is not my job to strengthen and increase america's reputation in the world, it's not my job to score high ratings from the media or be well-liked by as many foreign leaders as possible - no, it's my job to strengthen and increase the wealth and safety of the american people."

essentially, people like you and icemage would like an obama-clone as president, at least when it comes to personal conduct and to the way of interacting with foreign leaders. but trump got voted into the white house exactly because he promised to break from this tradition, to be the opposite of obama. you're free to dislike it, to criticize it - but please finally acknowledge that his voters really do want him to act according to the"america first"-doctrine.


Unfortunately, his voters don't understand that soft power is arguably more important now than it's ever been, and "strengthen and increase the wealth of the American people" includes not tanking our relationship with the allies that keep us strong and wealthy.

He's failing. Instead of acknowledging that Trump has failed on the soft powers perspective on virtually every front, from China effectively taking the lead on setting global policy, to maintaining our relationships with our allies, to not staffing the state department, to only hiring ambassadors and other foreign officials that never criticized him regardless of their qualifications, you're going to make excuses.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jun 10 2018 09:32am
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