Quote (fender @ Oct 15 2023 04:21pm)

i have repeatedly stated, in this very thread, that i'm in favour of eliminating hamas, the most radical and militant voices within palestine, prior to ending the occupation.

let's not forget that a crucial part in them gaining that much power and control over gaza was netanyahu deliberately propping them up - something that has been common knowledge in israel for a long time, and an aspect you see our resident pro-apartheid posters avoid like the plague.

he did that because he (correctly) calculated that their attacks would keep the desire to push for an end to the occupation within the moderate part of israel's population down - which is a declared goal of his. he knowingly sacrificed israeli lives in order to achieve his personal and political goals. just to be clear, i'm not saying he's happy about the terror attack of last week. the sheer size and brutality of it was likely not something he factored in, but it is undeniable that he treated hamas as an asset, and saw to it that moderate voices within both palestine and israel never rose to the power they had in '95, when an extremist orthodox jew murdered the moderate prime minister of israel, after netanyahu and his party railed for months against him selling out israel, basically putting a massive target on his back.

will there still be people who lost family and friends to the occupation and resent israel? will there still be the possibility of some of them radicalising to a degree that they would sacrifice their own lives to hurt those that kept them occupied for so long? very likely, yes. but would the palestinian population as a whole have a desire or let alone the means to commit a genocide on jews in israel, or whatever hypotherical horror scenario the occupiers use in order to justify their ACTUAL crimes against humanity? no, definitely not. i mean just look at the demographic data. it's really absurd...

also, it is completely unrealistic and ridiculous to expect or demand that the palestinian people can only regain their freedom once not a single one of them hates israel, especially if you keep in mind how many of them died during the occupation.

Quote (majorblood @ 15 Oct 2023 23:09)

haven't had your take on it but when you say "end occupation" what do you mean exactly? should Israel allow more people inside of their country or should Israel cease to exist and give the land to the people of Gaza?

Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 15 2023 03:18pm)

I think the solution here is quite simple. Whether the people in power will make the necessary steps to achieve it is a different question though.

Quote (fender @ Oct 15 2023 04:28pm)

two. separate. states. a palestinian state in control of its own borders, resources, and destiny - and an israeli state that already has all of that but chooses to uphold an illegal occupation.

Quote (TiStuff @ Oct 15 2023 03:31pm)

that perhaps makes you the only one to have it figured out

Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 15 2023 03:42pm)

Lots of people share the perspective I have, and have reached it long before I. Many people in this very thread share the same perspective.

Quote (TiStuff @ Oct 15 2023 03:48pm)

what? that the solution is somewhere between nothing and what they are dong now?

Quote (Handcuffs @ 16 Oct 2023 00:26)

I don't question that you are in favor of eliminating Hamas. I'm just curious what ideas people have should Israel take accountability for what it needs to take accountability for, in terms of what then should be done about Hamas. Even if Israel did as I painted in the previous post, Hamas will still want to attack Israel and wipe Jews from the region.

Quote (fender @ Oct 15 2023 03:54pm)

iran has vowed to erase israel from the map for how long now? india and pakistan have threatened each other how many times in recent decades? so many countries who hate each others' guts...

bottom line is, iran won't do shit. they know israel has nukes (even though the israelis don't officially acknowledge theat - an interesting point of discussion on its own, but probably not the time and place now), they know that netanyahu can fully rely on unlimited support by US neocons (he's on tape bragging about how easy it is to manipulate the stupid americans to do his bidding).

they might fund terror attacks, but they would never start an open confrontation because they know they'd be wiped off the face of the earth in an instant. yet we're supposed to treat the rhetoric of a ramshackle crew of malnourished radicals, who lived their whole lives under brutal occupation, as an existential threat to the most powerful military in the middle east? give me a break. i don't buy into the "let's keep violating the human rights of millions, because some of them threaten retaliation" approach to justifying a system of apartheid and oppression. it just perpetuates violence and makes no sense whatsoever, not logically, not morally, not practically.

i'm really tired of people acting like it's a legitimate reason to starve and slaughter children, as if israeli babies are somehow worth more than palestinian babies. there will never be healing, there will never be peace as long as one side occupies the other.